Aerotouring in Italy
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Going Italian - think again
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The LAA is way off the mark. The figures they have quoted are for a whole year.
(The tax) is payable on application for issuance or renewal of the certificate of airworthiness during the whole period of its validity. In the event that the certificate is valid for less than a year the tax is payable at the rate of 1/12 of the above amounts for each month of validity.
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Patowalker, I sincerely hope you are right, as your reference implies it will only applicable to Italian regd planes.
I just posted a related questions here (prorata or full year taxation?) and got a different answer... http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-fl...x-snafu-6.html
I hope the Italians will be reasonable and realize the absurdity of full year taxation of short term visiting aircraft...
I just posted a related questions here (prorata or full year taxation?) and got a different answer... http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-fl...x-snafu-6.html
I hope the Italians will be reasonable and realize the absurdity of full year taxation of short term visiting aircraft...
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No, the tax also applies to aircraft not registered in Italy, but if it is payable pro-rata on Italian aircraft, the same must apply to foreign registered aircraft. A visit is unlikely to last more than a month, in which case the amount due is 1/12 of the annual tax.
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OK, point taken on applicability to foreign a/c as well.
However, equally worrying is if they do not apply the tax on a prorata basis. A 2.5 day long weekend trip would become...ehhh... too expensive! But if they only charge prorata for the no of days visiting, then it can be lived with. I'm not saying I'm supportive of this scheme but at least it can be bearable as a visiting a/c. I guess one have to view new tax as an increased landing/parking fee, sort of...
However, equally worrying is if they do not apply the tax on a prorata basis. A 2.5 day long weekend trip would become...ehhh... too expensive! But if they only charge prorata for the no of days visiting, then it can be lived with. I'm not saying I'm supportive of this scheme but at least it can be bearable as a visiting a/c. I guess one have to view new tax as an increased landing/parking fee, sort of...
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Ah, I didn't mean pro-rata on a daily basis, only pro-rata on a monthly basis. European solidarity demands that we all help get the Italians out of the mess they are in. 
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Ok. My personal view though, is that prorata on a monthly basis is still too expensive... I guess we have to wait for the specificities around how they actually are going to implement this 'brilliant' law in practice...
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I have just heard from an Italian pilot (living outside Italy) who says that nobody knows the details of this yet. He is avoiding flying to Italy, however, which seems prudent. With no provision for the "cannot fly back out for whatever reason" scenario, anybody who even overflies Italy needs their head examined 
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Over the past couple of years they have held the World aerobatics contest and the World air games in Italy. I can't imaging anyone holding any aviation event in Italy until this tax is repealed.
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Let's hope they sort out the details and how it will work in practice rather quickly (although I don't high hopes for the speed of Italian governmental bodies). It will be equally bad if we're left in an anarchistic situation where each field charge what they want, under the pretext of the new legislation, and a poor visitor just has to cough up or leave plane behind...
As mentioned in earlier posts, an option is of course to skip Italy totally as destination, but that's really dull given the attractiveness of certain destinations. The other option is to go for the < 48h stay, which is of course a risky approach if weather/tech/local hassle factor is not cooperative...
As mentioned in earlier posts, an option is of course to skip Italy totally as destination, but that's really dull given the attractiveness of certain destinations. The other option is to go for the < 48h stay, which is of course a risky approach if weather/tech/local hassle factor is not cooperative...
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In some cases you could fly just outside Italy.
For example if you land at Portoroz or Ljubljana (Slovenia) it is just a bus into NE Italy.
Slovenia is infinitely better organised and more GA friendly than Italy has ever been (with certain exceptions like Trieste but there you have the hassle of the avgas pump at the end of the long narrow taxiway).
One could also land anywhere along the Croatian coast (Pula, Losinj, Brac, Split, Dubrovnik - all superbly friendly and organised airports with avgas and customs) and take a relatively short boat to any of the ports on the E Italian coast.
The problem with Italy, and most of the other countries down that way, is that the way things work there is that the locals will find "ways" around it but a visitor is going to be easy prey, especially if he can't speak Italian.
For example if you land at Portoroz or Ljubljana (Slovenia) it is just a bus into NE Italy.
Slovenia is infinitely better organised and more GA friendly than Italy has ever been (with certain exceptions like Trieste but there you have the hassle of the avgas pump at the end of the long narrow taxiway).
One could also land anywhere along the Croatian coast (Pula, Losinj, Brac, Split, Dubrovnik - all superbly friendly and organised airports with avgas and customs) and take a relatively short boat to any of the ports on the E Italian coast.
The problem with Italy, and most of the other countries down that way, is that the way things work there is that the locals will find "ways" around it but a visitor is going to be easy prey, especially if he can't speak Italian.
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I agree, for a longer stay the options you mention are viable. However, for a weekend trip things get more complicated as there's simply not enough time for long transfers. That's the beauty of e.g. Elba, venice lido in my experience where there is a very short transfer to beach/sightseeing. My experience is also that these two airfields are very hassle free. It's just a shame that a number of these wonderful places will not be accessible realistically for extended weekend trips anymore... And I would have loved to go to Sardegna this year.
As you mention, Croatia is an excellent option in terms of accesibility, price levels, no hassle, friendliness, etc. Been to Losinj for a short stay and recommend it.
Agree to your last point on ways around things for locals. Guess I have to learn Italian as a first step...
As you mention, Croatia is an excellent option in terms of accesibility, price levels, no hassle, friendliness, etc. Been to Losinj for a short stay and recommend it.
Agree to your last point on ways around things for locals. Guess I have to learn Italian as a first step...
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I can see it being a bit of a nightmare for those organisations renting out their aircraft.
Some rents it, and flies into a small field in Italy, and leaves a week later without paying any taxes.
A few months later the owner gets a bill from the Italian Revenue, and the renter is nowhere to be found.
Some rents it, and flies into a small field in Italy, and leaves a week later without paying any taxes.
A few months later the owner gets a bill from the Italian Revenue, and the renter is nowhere to be found.
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I faced this when (years ago) I used to rent out my plane.
I would get prospective people proudly declaring they don't use a GPS and fly with a map and stopwatch. I then mentioned to them the French nuclear power station TRAs. Wot? Never heard of them. Notams? Wot Notams?
I didn't fancy the plane ending up in France, with a (reportedly) 10k euro ransom on it which I would have to pay, while the client got onto Easyjet back home.
I would get prospective people proudly declaring they don't use a GPS and fly with a map and stopwatch. I then mentioned to them the French nuclear power station TRAs. Wot? Never heard of them. Notams? Wot Notams?
I didn't fancy the plane ending up in France, with a (reportedly) 10k euro ransom on it which I would have to pay, while the client got onto Easyjet back home.
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This just shows how many question marks still surround the new legislation. Previous two posts assume the tax will be billed separately after the visit to the owner of the a/c. My initial thought would be that the pilot pays upon leaving, with the local airfield office easily calculating no of days on Italian soil, but I now clearly see that there are different options.
Well, one realises it's not obvious how they will actually bill this. To the owner retroactively? To the pilot before leaving? This leads to another set of questions: what if you go multiple times in one year but each time under 48h? If the time constraint relates to total time in Italy over the year, who will then keep track of this? Even if the 48h time limit is per stay, who keeps track of the exact time if one goes to small uncontrolled airfields? Some Sherlock Holmes digging out filed ATS flight plans or what?
I'm still very puzzled, and I guess I will continue to be for quite some time until there are some clarifications. And who knows when we will get those... Hopefully before late spring/summer for obvious reasons. If anyone obtains further details on this legislation, an update here would be appreciated.
Well, one realises it's not obvious how they will actually bill this. To the owner retroactively? To the pilot before leaving? This leads to another set of questions: what if you go multiple times in one year but each time under 48h? If the time constraint relates to total time in Italy over the year, who will then keep track of this? Even if the 48h time limit is per stay, who keeps track of the exact time if one goes to small uncontrolled airfields? Some Sherlock Holmes digging out filed ATS flight plans or what?
I'm still very puzzled, and I guess I will continue to be for quite some time until there are some clarifications. And who knows when we will get those... Hopefully before late spring/summer for obvious reasons. If anyone obtains further details on this legislation, an update here would be appreciated.
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Also in most cases the airport does not have the owner's contact details.
With a G-reg they usually know about G-INFO and send the bill there. With an N-reg they tend to eventually dig out the trustee and send the bill there, and the trustee forwards it to the owner with a varyingly stroppy letter.
The whole business of airports chasing after money is fraught with problems. What doesn't help is that often the airport doesn't manage to make contact until months later, by which time the pilot has chucked the records away. I had Caglieri (Sardinia) chase me for payment of landing fees, months after the trip there, and it was only because I keep airport receipts for at least a year that I was able to prove I had paid it. LaRochelle did the same once but I had to pay it twice because I no longer had the receipts.
Even if you very carefully leave your contact details with the airport staff, they will PROB99 lose them, or not pass them to whoever is chasing after you months later.
After a flight to Tempelhof I didn't get billed for some enroute charge which others got billed for and after that I put a lot of effort into extracting, from the German DFS, a written confirmation that nothing is owed, and I carry that in the boot.
You absolutely do not want to end up in a situation where Airport X, or Country X, thinks that you owe them money, because they might grab your plane next time you land there. So any ambiguity about this Italian business is a total no-no for travelling there. Unless you are a renter
With a G-reg they usually know about G-INFO and send the bill there. With an N-reg they tend to eventually dig out the trustee and send the bill there, and the trustee forwards it to the owner with a varyingly stroppy letter.
The whole business of airports chasing after money is fraught with problems. What doesn't help is that often the airport doesn't manage to make contact until months later, by which time the pilot has chucked the records away. I had Caglieri (Sardinia) chase me for payment of landing fees, months after the trip there, and it was only because I keep airport receipts for at least a year that I was able to prove I had paid it. LaRochelle did the same once but I had to pay it twice because I no longer had the receipts.
Even if you very carefully leave your contact details with the airport staff, they will PROB99 lose them, or not pass them to whoever is chasing after you months later.
After a flight to Tempelhof I didn't get billed for some enroute charge which others got billed for and after that I put a lot of effort into extracting, from the German DFS, a written confirmation that nothing is owed, and I carry that in the boot.
You absolutely do not want to end up in a situation where Airport X, or Country X, thinks that you owe them money, because they might grab your plane next time you land there. So any ambiguity about this Italian business is a total no-no for travelling there. Unless you are a renter
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I have not seen anything to indicate airport authorities or airfield owners will be responsible for collecting the tax. This is obviously the way visitors are expected to pay, but ensuring they do is another matter:
An alternative to payment by (form) F24 is forseen for those persons unable to pay with this model: payment may also be made through a bank in Euros in favor of Bilancio dello Stato al Capo 8 – Capitolo 1223. The transfer must refer to BIC: BITAITRRENT, the reason for transfer: data of the person liable to pay tax, identification of the aircraft (nationality and registration marks), the tax code and the reference period and finally the number IBAN - IT35 Z010 0003 2453 4800 8122 300.
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The short answer is CBA. I was looking forward to visiting Italy but there are plenty of other places - easier and cheaper to use.
I'll do my shopping elsewhere as well......
I'll do my shopping elsewhere as well......