Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Reload this Page >

Commuting to Brussels

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

Commuting to Brussels

Old 28th Dec 2011, 13:44
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,187
Commuting to Brussels

Any one got any ideas of the best airfields to use near Brussels for light aircraft?
A and C is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2011, 14:10
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of the border
Posts: 182
Brussels

Is Grimbergen still open? If so that would be my choice.

I always like the ident...EGBG!
gyrotyro is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2011, 14:15
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Age: 33
Posts: 14
EGBG is leicester airport
Fanjita is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2011, 14:25
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: EBZH
Posts: 2,528
EBGB is open, yes. And what a lovely place it manages to be and remain! But it is a strictly day VFR-only field and procedures must be carefully respected - they have more than their share of local nimby's and the aerodrome's traffic zone was "cut out" from Brussels CTR with Brussels TMA immediately overhead at 1000'.
(check out Recreatief Vliegveld Grimbergen - EBGB - Grimbergen Airfield, but it might be local language only (and that local language is NOT French, btw, it is Dutch))
Also, if flying in from the UK, make sure you can clear customs at EBGB, if it is possible at all it must be requested in advance.

One should be sure to have a good alternate - EBAW Deurne and EBCI Charleroi are both reasonably close to Brussels, and ILS equipped, but of course much more expensive, with mandatory handling and what not.
Compromise might be EBKT with minimal IFR equipment, but it is a good deal farther away, perhaps a 100 km or so by road.

Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 28th Dec 2011 at 20:15.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2011, 14:59
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Belgium
Posts: 488
EBKT has LOC-DME approach with 520ft minima, Schengen port of entry and reasonable train connections to Brussels (about 1:15) and is closest coming from the UK. No handling required if below 2T. GA friendly. Probably 15-20 minutes less flying time from the UK than EBCI and EBAW if that is important.

EBCI would have the lowest landing fees 12.10 for <2T, don't know about parking fees, busy Ryanair airport, good ILS facilities.

EBAW has somewhat higher landing fees but is closer to Brussels and Antwerp is a major city too. Probably the quickest to Brussels. Airline flights into London City if needed. GA friendly.
dirkdj is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2011, 15:20
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
I use Antwerp. Very GA friendly. Landing Fee EUR 24, Parking EUR 15 per day + EUR 14 per pax. Bus or taxi to Berchem station and 35 mins to Brussels Gare Centrale (3 trains per hour).
bookworm is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2011, 18:28
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of the border
Posts: 182
Antwerp

24 plus 15 plus 14 euro would go a long way to a Eurostar fare. With the fuel used flying and the train fare from Antwerp it would be cheaper to go by train.
gyrotyro is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2011, 20:11
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: EBZH
Posts: 2,528
Few (if any) round here need to be reminded our craft are, as a means of transport, expensive and ineffective, in most cases.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2011, 20:29
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,187
Anyone used Brussels National ? The JEPPS show VFR arrivals & departures.
A and C is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2011, 20:36
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: EBZH
Posts: 2,528
I've certainly never done it, but heard* rumours of EBGB pilots doing the occasional touch&go there, in their Cessna's. The place seems to be rather calm in the afternoon, generally.

More rumours spoke of a cost of 400 euro's, take or give, 10 years ago.

Abelag are the handlers and should be happy to give more info.

Avgas availability might be another concern.








*at the bar, of course
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 28th Dec 2011, 21:55
  #11 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,187
A few years Back I used my aircraft to commute to Lille and had no problems, the cost of the technical operation is no problem to me, what will make or brake this will be the airport charges.
A and C is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2011, 09:00
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
When I enquired the handling fee was minimum EUR 196 at Brussels National. Landing fees are painful.
bookworm is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2011, 10:39
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 381
A&C, I guess it all boils down to two things :

1. Where exactly do you need to be ?
2. What do you mean by "Commute" ?

I'm assuming you need a customs' clearance, which would exclude Grimbergen as final destination, unless you make a stop in one of the airports below (which would incur landing fees)

EBBR - prohibitively expensive. Count on 500 EUR for landing, handling and overnight parking.

EBCI - about 14 EUR landing fee; There is also the option of an "abonnement", i.e. paying a yearly fee of about 500 EUR which would cover landing fees for a year.

EBLG - similar story to EBCI.

EBAW - about 36 EUR landing fee;

EBOS - about 24 EUR landing fee;

Now, if you are truely commuting, i.e. you are flying in on Sunday Evening and return on Friday Evening, it makes sense to talk to the Administrators in both Antwerp, Charleroi etc... and ask them what they could do for you as a "regular", as both are angling to increase GA that is non-training.

If you're final destination is the Centre of Brussels, then I think the Eurostar is hard to beat. However, prices for convenient commuting times are the most expensive ones. Alternatively, Cityjet flies from London City into EBBR. Remember that if you don't fly to EBBR by yourself, you're looking at another hour of travel time (even if you keep a car at the airport you fly to).

Good luck !


EDIT : Bookworm, as you know all the rules (present and future) so well, could you enlighten us about the following possibilities

1. Weekly commuting operation by 4-6 colleagues and friends between in a Cessna 206 or similar airplane on a cost sharing basis between EGMC and EBAW, in an N-registered aircraft operated under Part 91 ? Assume the operator is a Jersey Company that rents out N-reg planes. The owner is a Delaware (US) company and the Jersey Company is the trust beneficiary.

2. Same thing as (1), but in a G-registered Cessna 206. The operator is an LLC based in Lewisham, which also owns the aircraft.

By cost sharing I mean :
- divide the wet or dry rental equally among the occupants
- landing fees, handling fees, parking fees and passenger fees divided among the occupants.

If this is possible, then the commute obviously makes sense, even in competition with the Eurostar. It would suffice to have ONE flexible ticket for each occupant in order to proctect the pilot from passenger pressure and gettheritis, but apart from that, it seems to make economical sense.

Any comments welcomed...

Last edited by proudprivate; 29th Dec 2011 at 11:41.
proudprivate is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2011, 12:44
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Delsey
Posts: 745
I believe cost sharing is based upon a maximum of four people including the pilot (CAA always was, anyway)

A & C - I assume you are commuting to fly commercially there? No chance of sticking a little 'un in one of the company sheds (if any?) to avoid parking fees, or even speaking to your ops dept to see if they can strike a deal?
500 above is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2011, 13:05
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,187
500 above

Got it in one! Just looking at the contracts that are avalble next year and jetfly look like a good number.

I know that you can't go into EBGB direct from the UK but can you go in direct from a French airfield?

If so it looks like a quick stop at LFAC.
A and C is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2011, 13:11
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
Remember that if you don't fly to EBBR by yourself, you're looking at another hour of travel time (even if you keep a car at the airport you fly to).
Depends on where you're going. If it's near the airport, EBBR is easier by an hour. For central Brussels, the difference between EBBR (on the bus or taxi) and the regional airports (by train) is much less.

2. Same thing as (1), but in a G-registered Cessna 206. The operator is an LLC based in Lewisham, which also owns the aircraft.
I know nothing about FAA rules (though I believe N-reg cost-sharing in the UK is not permitted without a DfT permission -- Art 223). The G-reg scenario you describe seems reasonable for 4 under current UK legislation, but as 500 above says, there's a limit of 4 people for cost sharing. No one really knows what the "future rules" are in this area, or rather, no one knows how they will be interpreted.

I agree that if you have a small party of people, it may be cheaper to fly yourself. But I wouldn't bet on it.
bookworm is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2011, 14:49
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: EBZH
Posts: 2,528
I know that you can't go into EBGB direct from the UK but can you go in direct from a French airfield?
Ought to work, yes, I can't see why it shouldn't. You'd still need to file a flight plan for the "continental" part, though.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2011, 15:44
  #18 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,187
This is not all about Money if it was I would be on the Eurostar, it is about lifestyle. the Lille base worked realy well. I could be home on a Friday afternoon quicker than if I was on the M25 coming from Gatwick.
A and C is offline  
Old 29th Dec 2011, 16:43
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,462
You can't cost share an N-reg in UK airspace, but an N-reg can be rented out OK (I checked it with the DfT myself).

I flew to Antwerp EBAW a couple of years ago. A very easy airport. It was apparent that with the "right methods" one could avoid the handling fee. It wasn't much anyway on the scale of flying costs but it would soon mount up if you were going there regularly.

You can avoid the handler's fee at a lot of airports by taxiing to the aeroclub. Obviously this needs a prior arrangement and you may have to join the aeroclub for this to work however
peterh337 is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2017, 17:33
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 1,814
I regularly (three times a month) connect Popham and EBCI Charleroi - indeed made the flight earlier today.

Managed a record time today of 1h08 minutes (groundspeed topping 215kts at times!).

EBCI is very easy, very cheap and very quick (have only been met by cops leaving or arriving twice in almost 10 years now).
Sam Rutherford is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.