23yo model walks into propeller
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23yo model walks into propeller
Fashion Editor Walks Into Propeller, Survives; Parents Discuss - Yahoo!
Texas: Model läuft in Propeller - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten - Panorama
This happened in McKinney/Texas. She lost one of her hands and sustained multiple severe injuries to her head, shoulders, face and one eye.
Apparently she had just disembarked the 2-seat plane while the pilot remained in his seat to wait for the next passenger between two flights.
Texas: Model läuft in Propeller - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten - Panorama
This happened in McKinney/Texas. She lost one of her hands and sustained multiple severe injuries to her head, shoulders, face and one eye.
Apparently she had just disembarked the 2-seat plane while the pilot remained in his seat to wait for the next passenger between two flights.
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That is truly dreadful. I hope the girl makes as best, and speedy a recovery as possible.
Difficult though when a first time flyer is asked to leave an aeroplane, whilst engine is still running. The euphoria/excitement of the flight, dark???, mixes to a dangerous cocktail.
Difficult though when a first time flyer is asked to leave an aeroplane, whilst engine is still running. The euphoria/excitement of the flight, dark???, mixes to a dangerous cocktail.
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Wasn't there are report recently issued concerning a similar accident in the UK where a girl stepped of the front of a PA-28 wing?
My education as a pilot instilled into me a fear of propellers in the same way that once people had a fear of God: that is a supreme respect for the things at all times, whether apparently alive or dead, and an understanding that they may smite ye down without warning. This has served me well so far, but often my attitude is challenged as risk averse or old fashioned (however isn't it a good thing to be averse to unnecessary risk). I cringe when I see people handling propellers casually, putting arms and necks through the discs on walkarounds, pull aircraft by the blades, curl fingers around the trailing edge when hand-swinging or sucking in, stand or walk too close to props and tail rotors. I can't help but form opinions about professionalism based on what I see.
A pilot has an even greater responsibility to ensure the safety of his passengers who are generally completely ignorant of the many risks that props and rotors pose. The PIC must brief pax thoroughly in advance, and most recent acidents have occurred to pax that have received no briefing whatsoever. Running changes were normal when I was on a UAS but everyone had been briefed beforehand. The problem is that most new PPL pilots and many instructors seem unalert to the dangers, and so the chance of warnings filtering down to first time passengers is almost zero - unfortunately with the expected consequences.
My education as a pilot instilled into me a fear of propellers in the same way that once people had a fear of God: that is a supreme respect for the things at all times, whether apparently alive or dead, and an understanding that they may smite ye down without warning. This has served me well so far, but often my attitude is challenged as risk averse or old fashioned (however isn't it a good thing to be averse to unnecessary risk). I cringe when I see people handling propellers casually, putting arms and necks through the discs on walkarounds, pull aircraft by the blades, curl fingers around the trailing edge when hand-swinging or sucking in, stand or walk too close to props and tail rotors. I can't help but form opinions about professionalism based on what I see.
A pilot has an even greater responsibility to ensure the safety of his passengers who are generally completely ignorant of the many risks that props and rotors pose. The PIC must brief pax thoroughly in advance, and most recent acidents have occurred to pax that have received no briefing whatsoever. Running changes were normal when I was on a UAS but everyone had been briefed beforehand. The problem is that most new PPL pilots and many instructors seem unalert to the dangers, and so the chance of warnings filtering down to first time passengers is almost zero - unfortunately with the expected consequences.
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Such an accident shows that not only passengers are ignorant of aviation risks. The PIC in this incident was equally very ignorant of the risks and has a lot of paper work to do elaborating this event to FAA.
I wish the model a steady recovery and all the best, even though life will never be as it was before.
world pilot
I wish the model a steady recovery and all the best, even though life will never be as it was before.
world pilot
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My father was on halifaxes during the war and saw this hapen twice. The first time the erk managed to walk through the arc of the propellor when the engine was idling without a scratch. The second time the engine was being run up and the victim wasnt so lucky.
Propellors and circular saws have much in common, one mistake and you are toast.
Cumulusrider
Propellors and circular saws have much in common, one mistake and you are toast.
Cumulusrider
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My words from the other thread on this:
Yep, this'll be on the pilot. In my opinion, there have to be pretty severe circumstances to leave a propeller turning with a passenger exiting. I'll occasionally do it if I have a "qualified" passenger (another pilot, aircraft mechanic), but never a not aircraft familiar person - it's just not worth the risk.
When hot exiting a knowledgeable pax, I always do two things: I turn the aircraft so the path from the exit, to where they will be walking is away from the prop, and I make eye contact while I remind them to watch out for the prop. I've never had a problem.
Wingstruts are a somewhat helpful barrier (which is why Cessna Cardinals were said to have a higher incidence of prop/pax strikes). I wonder how this passenger got around the wingstrut, and back in so close to the aircraft. Pilot parked the plane pointed toward the footpath destination? Doing this at night was a remarkably poor idea. If the woman were to notice the prop during daylight, she would not at night. And then she waved at someone.....
This unfortunate (ok, careless) accident needs lots of publicity among pilots, to remind us of our responsibility to passenger safety.
Yep, this'll be on the pilot. In my opinion, there have to be pretty severe circumstances to leave a propeller turning with a passenger exiting. I'll occasionally do it if I have a "qualified" passenger (another pilot, aircraft mechanic), but never a not aircraft familiar person - it's just not worth the risk.
When hot exiting a knowledgeable pax, I always do two things: I turn the aircraft so the path from the exit, to where they will be walking is away from the prop, and I make eye contact while I remind them to watch out for the prop. I've never had a problem.
Wingstruts are a somewhat helpful barrier (which is why Cessna Cardinals were said to have a higher incidence of prop/pax strikes). I wonder how this passenger got around the wingstrut, and back in so close to the aircraft. Pilot parked the plane pointed toward the footpath destination? Doing this at night was a remarkably poor idea. If the woman were to notice the prop during daylight, she would not at night. And then she waved at someone.....
This unfortunate (ok, careless) accident needs lots of publicity among pilots, to remind us of our responsibility to passenger safety.
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On the Aero Commander it's extra dangerous as you exit just behind the prop arc, under the wing. The door blocks you from going forward immediately, but if you go under the nacelle it's wide open. Dreadful.
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'I cringe when I see people handling propellers casually, putting arms and necks through the discs on walkarounds, pull aircraft by the blades, curl fingers around the trailing edge when hand-swinging or sucking in, stand or walk too close to props and tail rotors. I can't help but form opinions about professionalism based on what I see'.
So true. It astonishes me the amount of pilots who have an apparent indifference to the dangers posed. I have spent a great deal of time flying types that require hand swing/suck in, and the time spent at or near props is when I give it my utmost attention. I have only had one fire on me, a Chipmunk, engine warm, there were two people standing close, thank God I asked them to move, I turned the prop, and it fired.
I also would only allow another pilot to do a hot swap, even then, it is fully briefed, even pointing in the direction they have to go. Not a place for complacancy.
So true. It astonishes me the amount of pilots who have an apparent indifference to the dangers posed. I have spent a great deal of time flying types that require hand swing/suck in, and the time spent at or near props is when I give it my utmost attention. I have only had one fire on me, a Chipmunk, engine warm, there were two people standing close, thank God I asked them to move, I turned the prop, and it fired.
I also would only allow another pilot to do a hot swap, even then, it is fully briefed, even pointing in the direction they have to go. Not a place for complacancy.
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And make sure your hands are already on the mixture control and/or ignition switches, so you can shut down immediately (and I mean IMMEDIATELY) if somebody makes a move in the wrong direction.
"I have only had one fire on me" so have I - a backfire which took off my thumb, thanks to surgeons at Salisbury's Oddstock Hosp sewed it back on & is still working well.
Learned a very big lesson that day & am scared stiff of swinging props now.
R2
Learned a very big lesson that day & am scared stiff of swinging props now.
R2
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I once hand propped my buddy's 150 for him. I called "mags off" and got back "mags off". One pull, and it started. I looked at him in disbelief, through the turning prop..... He removed, and held up the keys for me to see.
Lots of caution required around props!
Lots of caution required around props!
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That is a sad and horrific story and I wish the unfortunate victim all the best.
Like many model fliers, I carry a few scars from encounters with the little devil engines. Now in model world, there is a device called a "chicken stick" which you can use to flick a prop instead of putting you finger in the arc of the prop. I was wondering if there is a full size equivalent? I would be scared stiff of hand cranking a Rotax three blader, although I understand there is a recommended technique.
I confess at times I push and pull my Rotax powered plane out of the hangar by the prop, but never rotating it. Maybe a simple wooden grabbers would be easily knocked up, what do you think, would it be worth it? It could for instance incorporate a torque limiting device, even one as simple as a shear pin.
Like many model fliers, I carry a few scars from encounters with the little devil engines. Now in model world, there is a device called a "chicken stick" which you can use to flick a prop instead of putting you finger in the arc of the prop. I was wondering if there is a full size equivalent? I would be scared stiff of hand cranking a Rotax three blader, although I understand there is a recommended technique.
I confess at times I push and pull my Rotax powered plane out of the hangar by the prop, but never rotating it. Maybe a simple wooden grabbers would be easily knocked up, what do you think, would it be worth it? It could for instance incorporate a torque limiting device, even one as simple as a shear pin.
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Rather than pulling any aircraft by the prop, simply find someone to help and move it by the wing tips. If a third person is required to dip the tail to get the nose up, so be it. Far safer than grabbing a prop and pulling, one slip (especially now it's icy) and the prop will turn.
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I would be scared stiff of hand cranking a Rotax
Obviously you still have to make sure that the mags are Off and the keys out, before getting near to the prop.
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Pilot DARs story reminds me of a C172 I used to fly,
The keys would occesionally fall out of the mag switch whilst flying. Obviously not affecting the running.
D.O.
The keys would occesionally fall out of the mag switch whilst flying. Obviously not affecting the running.
D.O.
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can someone please confirm fact for me.
i have been told that it is impossible to handswing a rotax 912 and therefore puliing the prop is ok?
does anyone agree or disagree with this?
i have been told that it is impossible to handswing a rotax 912 and therefore puliing the prop is ok?
does anyone agree or disagree with this?
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I was referring to Rotax engines, which are routinely hand-cranked during the pre-flight checks, to get a meaningful reading of the oil quantity.
good finish, I cannot think of a reason why a warm Rotax, with fuel and mags On should not start if hand-pulled. I'm certainly not going to try!
good finish, I cannot think of a reason why a warm Rotax, with fuel and mags On should not start if hand-pulled. I'm certainly not going to try!
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every time i preflight any aircraft i have the keys in my hand and know the master is OFF, especially when turning the prop to check the belt.
I always tell my pax to exit rearwards in the briefing. i make a point to make sure the understand this.
While helping to Marshall at the Omaka airshow 2 years ago i saw a chap walking slowly back wards into a live prop while showing another aircraft to its parking slot, all the noise from the other engines plus ear defenders he just didn't notice. luckily another marshall calmly walked over and guided the chap away from the prop, not yelling and pointing, eliminating the natural reaction to turn around. very smart.
I always tell my pax to exit rearwards in the briefing. i make a point to make sure the understand this.
While helping to Marshall at the Omaka airshow 2 years ago i saw a chap walking slowly back wards into a live prop while showing another aircraft to its parking slot, all the noise from the other engines plus ear defenders he just didn't notice. luckily another marshall calmly walked over and guided the chap away from the prop, not yelling and pointing, eliminating the natural reaction to turn around. very smart.
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I was referring to Rotax engines, which are routinely hand-cranked during the pre-flight checks, to get a meaningful reading of the oil quantity.
good finish, I cannot think of a reason why a warm Rotax, with fuel and mags On should not start if hand-pulled. I'm certainly not going to try!
good finish, I cannot think of a reason why a warm Rotax, with fuel and mags On should not start if hand-pulled. I'm certainly not going to try!