Phasing out VOR's
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The flags do go out at long distances. You get more range with a EFIS system than you do with an old unit which I presume pace was on with his standby instrument but then again it may only be servo driven from the feed to the EFIS.
DME can be got stupid distances away depending on what the transmitter function is.
ie if its an ILS DME its got bugger all range but the likes of St Abbs you can pick up crossing the channel at FL220 on the east coast. St Abbs does seem to be strange one though, I don't know what it pumps out but you can always get it. MAN also seems to be a bit of beast.
The wagging of headings still goes on occasionally when spelling and finger trouble start occurring. Its surprising how actuate it is. Its not unusual to be within a couple of degrees and under 5 while the box of tricks has been beaten into submission. And that's without a moving map.
DME can be got stupid distances away depending on what the transmitter function is.
ie if its an ILS DME its got bugger all range but the likes of St Abbs you can pick up crossing the channel at FL220 on the east coast. St Abbs does seem to be strange one though, I don't know what it pumps out but you can always get it. MAN also seems to be a bit of beast.
The wagging of headings still goes on occasionally when spelling and finger trouble start occurring. Its surprising how actuate it is. Its not unusual to be within a couple of degrees and under 5 while the box of tricks has been beaten into submission. And that's without a moving map.
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VORs & NDBs going but DMEs staying?
I remember seeing an EASA presentation a while ago that the long term plan in Europe was that the only navaids were eventually going to be:
- GPS
- DME/DME
- ILS & DME
So the idea was to phase out VORs and NDBs completely in Europe, IIRC in 10-15 years
- GPS
- DME/DME
- ILS & DME
So the idea was to phase out VORs and NDBs completely in Europe, IIRC in 10-15 years
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ENR NDBs are gone and buried but the little 50 Watt ones (locators) are still in widespread use on/near airfields. Still useful IMO but will probably go within the next decade or so I suspect. Or such is the plan.
VORs are getting phased out as spares for the old Racal Mk IIs that NATS have all over the place are long extinct and so keeping them running is becoming increasingly difficult, hence the move to decommission a large number of them (in order to free up spares), those will probably go over the next decade too however. IIRC the grand plan is to, over the next decade, move to GPS/DME Nav.
Interesting times, but I await with interest to see what effect these tecnological developments will have on private GA. Mode S anyone?
Smithy
VORs are getting phased out as spares for the old Racal Mk IIs that NATS have all over the place are long extinct and so keeping them running is becoming increasingly difficult, hence the move to decommission a large number of them (in order to free up spares), those will probably go over the next decade too however. IIRC the grand plan is to, over the next decade, move to GPS/DME Nav.
Interesting times, but I await with interest to see what effect these tecnological developments will have on private GA. Mode S anyone?
Smithy
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I hope they do keep airfield locator NDB's they are extremely useful for situational awareness. You don't realise how much you use them until you fly somewhere that doesn't have something on the field be it VOR or NDB.
Have they killed off NGY yet?
Have they killed off NGY yet?
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I'm just wondering what Pace's co-pilot could have done to make ALL of the screens go blank in flight. I guess he must have done something pretty awful if it was not possible to get them restored in a short space of time.
I guess also that it must have been a VERY expensive mistake if no easy/quick fix was possible....please elaborate.
I guess also that it must have been a VERY expensive mistake if no easy/quick fix was possible....please elaborate.
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I think that WOD goes in the next six months, shortly to be followed by the ones you mention....
Incidentally, if you fly a practice hold at WCO (orientated to mimick the hold at Cranfield) you may find your middle marker beacon going off; clearly this is on the same electrical circuit as the WCO beacon and someone forgot to switch it off when the field was decommissioned.
Incidentally, if you fly a practice hold at WCO (orientated to mimick the hold at Cranfield) you may find your middle marker beacon going off; clearly this is on the same electrical circuit as the WCO beacon and someone forgot to switch it off when the field was decommissioned.
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ChubbyChopper
You dont think I am going to play that game do you?
If you really want to know we were watching a movie on the screens at the time!
Think it was "death at 30000 feet".
The movie was flickering so the co took off his shoe and hit the unit.
The result?? Black screens and the loss of a good movie
Pace
You dont think I am going to play that game do you?
If you really want to know we were watching a movie on the screens at the time!
Think it was "death at 30000 feet".
The movie was flickering so the co took off his shoe and hit the unit.
The result?? Black screens and the loss of a good movie
Pace
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Pace,
Was simply interested because it is extremely rare to lose all screens, and prior to you mentioning it I have never heard of such an occurrence except in cases where all electric generation has been lost, and then only after depletion of battery power.
I do however wish we could get movies on our screens. We have to move back to the cabin for that creature comfort - and that possibility only arises on empty legs!
Was simply interested because it is extremely rare to lose all screens, and prior to you mentioning it I have never heard of such an occurrence except in cases where all electric generation has been lost, and then only after depletion of battery power.
I do however wish we could get movies on our screens. We have to move back to the cabin for that creature comfort - and that possibility only arises on empty legs!
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Don't know turning the avionics switches off might cause the effect. GAwd only knows how long it would take for the AHARS to sort its life out afterwards and stop giving you multiple comparator errors.
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For certain reasons and because of the CP in question I dont want to go into detail but MD is in the right direction but happily the whole thing did sort itself out worst scenario conventional flying which suits me 
Pace
Pace
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I'm back on the Citation now for a while (Bravo) and can't for the life of me think what a co-pilot could possibly reach that would cause the screens to go blank. There is NOTHING on his side that I can see that would cause such a problem. Everything related to ac and alectrics are on my side.
@Pace, it seems you don't want to drop your co-pilot in the sh1t (which i completely understand and admire), but please, for my peace of mind tell me what I should "look out for" to stop a brand new 200 hr co-pilot from doing the same. Please don't mention any names, but give me an idea what I should do to prevent such a serious incident happening, as I would really not want to be fishing around in the dark trying to sort out a problem that someone here could help me avoid. Many thanks for any flight safety advise.
@Pace, it seems you don't want to drop your co-pilot in the sh1t (which i completely understand and admire), but please, for my peace of mind tell me what I should "look out for" to stop a brand new 200 hr co-pilot from doing the same. Please don't mention any names, but give me an idea what I should do to prevent such a serious incident happening, as I would really not want to be fishing around in the dark trying to sort out a problem that someone here could help me avoid. Many thanks for any flight safety advise.
