French language proficiency for 'FR seulement' airports?

[FlyingLapinou]

I did my PPL (theory and practical) in French, and in France, where I live. Consequently, I had to have English R/T proficiency added to my French licence for any flight beyond French borders. I arranged this through the DGAC, and was examined by French mother tongue ATCOs.

Perhaps the CAA organises similar exams, or can provide information on adding language endorsements to UK-issued licences?

P.S. They're really quite nice at Marmande, which is FR-seulement, but if you'd rather speak English, there's no FR requirement at Libourne (LFDI), which is about 30 NM northwest of LFDM. Nice restaurant there, too.

[patowalker]

... but if you'd rather speak English, there's no FR requirement at Libourne (LFDI), which is about 30 NM northwest of LFDM

What a joke. Multilingual A/A for monolingual pilots.

[Jan Olieslagers]

I've noticed the French Air Force likes to fly there for exceedingly long lunch breaks

Can't help thinking they'd fly anywhere for a solid lunch, and as has been mentioned before, many things in France come to a standstill between 12:00 and 15:00 more or less (rather more than less), aviation just one of them.

Come to think of it, my own national air defence force has (or at least used to have) training camps in Corsica too, there must be something special about this place indeed.

BTW for interesting variations on French language, anywhere South of Lyon will do, from Biarritz to Nizza, and let's not get started on Catal'an.

[LH2]

Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers

and let's not get started on Catal'an.

I perquè no?

[Whopity]

Definitely a case of "Vent Derrière"

[Shorrick Mk2]

I can't see how the DGAC could add any language proficiency to my IAA licence. Certainly nobody other than an Irish examiner was acceptable to the IAA for English language proficiency testing. I can't imagine that they retain a French, German, Polish, Russian etc language proficiency testers.

Do you think native English speakers are imported over all JAA-land for the purposes of L4+ English testing :-) ?

I am sure it is a solo run, by someone totally pi**ed off with Brits who think they have a right to use English everywhere. On A/A broken French will normally result in someone coming on air in English to assist.

Just in case there is any doubt about using Welsh: according to French RT regulations, it would be possible to use the language in certain circumstances.

See 2.2 on page 13 here https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv...ADIOTEL_V2.pdf

2.2 refers to emergency situations, when pretty much all other rules are out the window.

2.4 says clearly that French is only used between French controllers and French (or presumably French L4+ certified) pilots. So if you're a non-French pilot sans language certification, fly into a FR only airfield and somehow fcuk it up due to poor R/T, the French can throw the whole book at you.

[dublinpilot]

I can't see how the DGAC could add any language proficiency to my IAA licence. Certainly nobody other than an Irish examiner was acceptable to the IAA for English language proficiency testing. I can't imagine that they retain a French, German, Polish, Russian etc language proficiency testers.

Do you think native English speakers are imported over all JAA-land for the purposes of L4+ English testing :-) ?

There speaks a man who has never dealt with the IAA

Until four months before the deadline for getting English Languange Proficiency they had no tests at all who could test for English language skills, other than during a skills test! This is despite having three years to get ready for it.

Do you really think that less than a year later, they have French, German, Polish and Russian testers?

[BackPacker]

But the DGAC can't add a language proficiency to a UK licence.

I don't think they have to. Just as with the English language proficiency, you go to a dedicated testing center who will, at the end of the process and in return for a significant fee, issue you with a piece of paper stating your language proficiency level in whatever language you were tested on, and in case of level 4 and 5, an expiry date.

You then send this to the UK CAA to have it added to their database, and presumably your license.

So the DGAC doesn't have anything to do with it, other than possibly providing you with a list of FR language testing centers.

But I wonder whether the CAA would be setup to receive and record all these certificates, which are no doubt written in whatever local language you were tested on. A cover letter "please find enclosed the test results of my Russian language proficiency" could be a good idea.

[dublinpilot]

I don't think they have to. Just as with the English language proficiency, you go to a dedicated testing center who will, at the end of the process and in return for a significant fee, issue you with a piece of paper stating your language proficiency level in whatever language you were tested on, and in case of level 4 and 5, an expiry date.

You then send this to the UK CAA to have it added to their database, and presumably your license.

So the DGAC doesn't have anything to do with it, other than possibly providing you with a list of FR language testing centers.

That certainly was not acceptable to the IAA for ELP testing.

[dublinpilot]

Leaving aside how it might work, is there any evidence that this is a real requirement other than one local CFI asking for it before giving PPR for 'his' airfield.

[BackPacker]

That certainly was not acceptable to the IAA for ELP testing.

It's exactly what I did for my LPE. I went to a Dutch testing institute, paid the fee, got through the test (level 6 - yeah), got a certificate and sent this to the UK CAA, who are the ones who issued my license.

It's a principle which works all throughout JAA-land: You simply go to a private person or company who is a JAA examiner for whatever certificate you need (license, proficiency check, language check, whatever), do the test, let the examiner sign the required paperwork and send it to whatever CAA happens to administer your license.

So you are saying that the IAA started to administer language tests themselves? And are not accepting test results provided by other JAA testing centers?

[patowalker]

2.4 says clearly that French is only used between French controllers and French (or presumably French L4+ certified) pilots. So if you're a non-French pilot sans language certification, fly into a FR only airfield and somehow fcuk it up due to poor R/T, the French can throw the whole book at you.

Show me a French airfield which has a controller and is FR only. Controller implies ATC, so does not include AFIS or A/A airfields.

[dublinpilot]

It's a principle which works all throughout JAA-land: You simply go to a private person or company who is a JAA examiner for whatever certificate you need (license, proficiency check, language check, whatever), do the test, let the examiner sign the required paperwork and send it to whatever CAA happens to administer your license.

Ireland is part of JAA land and it doesn't work here, so you'll have to rephrase that to "all part of JAA land except Ireland"

So you are saying that the IAA started to administer language tests themselves? And are not accepting test results provided by other JAA testing centers?

Yes that is exactly what I am saying. I asked on more than a number of occasions if it was possible to get done with a JAA approved ELP tester outside Ireland and send the result (happy for the examiner to send them direct if they wanted) to the IAA and each time I was told no it was not acceptable. I understand others asked similar questions and got the same answer.

[Coolhand78]

Interesting thread...

I have a question. All the airports/aerodromes in France which request 'FR-seulment', at least all that I've seen, are uncontrolled airports. Then, if a pilot is not even required to use the radio on uncontrolled airspace, how can he be forced to use french?


Couldn't it be acceptable to enter in one of those aerodromes without making radio calls at all?

[grafity]

Firstly, I can see to a certain extent where the French/Germans/Russians etc. are coming from and I respect the national pride in their language, I wish mine had a wider use at home(Irish).

However, it's a bit ridiculous that if you want to fly throughout Europe you need to know 5 or 6 different languages, or at least know them if you want to know what's going on around you.
I was surprised by Germany, I had, at least, expected it in France.
What bugs me is that I'm not too long out of my PPL training so I can remember having to learn R/T, the fact is that it was like learning a complete new language anyway, except maybe numbers and knowing your left and your right. I doubt it would have been an issue for me if I had to learn a few new phrases. Even if the basics were common, especially when in the circuit.

I must say though, fair play to the French that have even managed to develop there own pronunciation of the international phonetic alphabet

[patowalker]

I must say though, fair play to the French that have even managed to develop there own pronunciation of the international phonetic alphabet

They have not developed their own pronounciation, they use the French spelling that sounds most like the English pronounciation. For example Maik for Mike. Other nationalities have done the same in their native languages.

[Maoraigh1]

francoflyers: French Radio Calls
I originally got this address from PPRUNE. I haven't managed to get anywhere to use the calls practised from the downloaded soundtracks yet. DR1050 not legal in France, and soon I won't have licence valid to fly it outside the UK.

[SergeD]

Corsica is NOT France

[FlyingStone]

Originally Posted by SergeD

Corsica is NOT France

Nevertheless, you need to listen to ATIS five times to make some sense of it, since it's prerecorded by a meteorologist and use hand signs like apes do when communicating to ground/handling staff.

[IO540]

Yeah, that is Corsica OK Nobody at Bastia spoke any English when I went there. Not one person in any restaurant, likewise. OK, they have no obligation to, but one might think that some tourist trade might be relevant.