French language proficiency for 'FR seulement' airports?

[Contacttower]

CEO of AOPA's column in this month's Flyer ran a story about how there is talk of a French Language proficiency exam that has to be taken before flying into French only airports.

He reports that at Marmande (which is a small airfield in the SW of France which is FR only) English pilots there using French on the radio apparently have been told that they need to have passed this proficiency exam in order to be legal.

Has anyone else come across this or could shed any light on whether this is true or not?

[Jan Olieslagers]

I've no idea whether it be true but can't see anything laughable about it. Any French pilot would consider it nothing but logical, and looking through their eyes I can't blame them.

Language profiency exams might well become big business - I would go for no less than French, German, Russian!

[Contacttower]

I've no doubt the reported story is true - it came from AOPA.

I'm just wondering whether this rule is something some random French airfield made up to scare off British aircraft (no idea why they would do that so long as pilots were talking proficiently in French).

I don't have a problem with this as such - although of course only the French would think up something like this - I just don't want to find myself not welcome at a FR only airfield.

[patowalker]

Marmade is A/A, so who told the English pilots they need French language proficiency? The AeroClub?

I suspect it is a case of some British pilots using English and someone reading them the riot act in French, which they didn't understand.

[Contacttower]

Marmade is A/A, so who told the English pilots they need French language proficiency? The AeroClub?

Well that is one of the things I'd like to find out. Funny thing is that over the summer I visited a number of French airports...if I had known about this I would have asked someone. Oh well I'm sure I can find out next time I'm over there.

[thing]

It's about time the bloody frogs remembered who rescued them from the jackboot. English is the international aviation language, get used to it.

[LH2]

Originally Posted by Contacttower

Has anyone else come across this or could shed any light on whether this is true or not?

Coincidentally, we where discussing this a few weeks ago at a local (French) aeroclub.

Basically, what was said boiled down to:

* A DGAC-licensed or foreign licensed pilot crossing an international border needs EN proficiency.
* A pilot flying to an FR-only airfield needs FR proficiency (which in principle DGAC-licensed pilots should have)
* More generally, a pilot flying to an airfield with specific language restrictions (e.g., German-only) needs level 4+ proficiency in that language. If the flight involved crossing an international border, EN level 4+ is needed (see first point) if nothing else for the border crossing.
* There was discussion on what constituted an "international border", and more specifically, whether intra-Schengen movement could be considered "international" for the purpose at hand, and if so, whether the language proficiency rules contravened Schengen and EU freedom of movement rules.

Now, the above is not in any way authoritative. It is just the opinion of a bunch of French club members on a windy day and it started in the context of complaining about having to obtain two R/T licences if flying internationally (the "normal" French one, and a so-called "international licence" proving English competence. Adds another €200 or so to the cost of a PPL and is compulsory for IFR, CPL and above).

That said, in purely legal terms there is a certain logic to having to have a piece of paper that certifies your skills on a given language if that language is an R/T requirement somewhere you're flying to. Having said that, I very much doubt that anyone would try to prosecute you for this (much less succeed) if you are clearly a competent speaker.

What I suspect might have happened in the above case was either the English pilots were unintelligible (and thus a safety risk), or someone was being a bit of a prick.

I reckon the law is a bit of an arse, but if one uses common sense one should be allright. Or so I'm hoping, since I don't have French R/T myself

[MartinCh]

What about using aviation Spanish in France? Would they not understand it?

One does not get far with English only in certain Latin America countries and smaller airports. So yes, it's possible to have this happen, though I'd not expect it in country like France.

Same thing in Russia. From what I read, private flying guys have to have 'radio handling Russian speaker' as sort of safety pilot. Not to mention lots of red tape.

[Mark 1]

Dylai Abertawe yn Gymraeg yn unig?

[Spitoon]

What is so difficult to understand?

If there is a requirement for French language proficiency at certain small airports in France, it's only France complying with international standards. The reason for requiring language proficiency is to ensure that communications (usually) between ATC and pilots can be achieved without misunderstanding. Which is a good thing.

Claims that English is the 'international aviation language' are a misunderstanding of the rules. What ICAO says is

Aeroplane, airship, helicopter and powered-lift pilots and those flight navigators who are required to use the radio telephone aboard an aircraft shall demonstrate the ability to speak and understand the language used for radiotelephony communications.

The air-ground radiotelephony communications shall be conducted in the language normally used by the station on the ground or in the English language.

The English language shall be available, on request from any aircraft station, at all stations on the ground serving designated airports and routes used by international air services.

Put it all together and a small airport in any non-English speaking country can be designated as using the local language only. If that causes a problem then you will need to fly to an airport which is designated as having English communications available. Maybe rather than berating the French, we monolingual native English speakers should consider ourselves very, very lucky not to have to learn another language in order to fly internationally.

Pam fyddai unrhyw un eisiau hedfan i Abertawe beth bynnag?

[IO540]

This is why, flying out of the UK, being able to fly only to international airports has never been a problem for me

Took me long enough to learn English

[Contacttower]

One does not get far with English only in certain Latin America countries and smaller airports. So yes, it's possible to have this happen, though I'd not expect it in country like France.

I'm guessing you've never flown in France...

There are loads of smaller airfields with A/A or AFIS frequencies which are French only. As far as I'm aware if an airport has a fully functioning TWR frequency then it will always be able to speak english though since it will be manned by a licensed air traffic controller.

A pilot flying to an FR-only airfield needs FR proficiency (which in principle DGAC-licensed pilots should have)

Well is there some sort of exam one can take in French for a non-native speaker? The AOPA article mentioned having to achieve ICAO level 4. You're probably right about using common sense...I'm just curious to find out what the official line is.

[Shorrick Mk2]

I can comment on this considering i fly from an almost French airport

Our official club and association line is that if you are flying into France into FR only airfields then you had better have the Level4 + language proficiency added to your radio licence. Reason for it being that if something happens and you have not "officially demonstrated language proficiency", then you're quite likely of getting accused of not understanding the radio traffic properly (and it's going to be your word against theirs). Obviously if French is your mother tongue (which for part of the Swiss it is) then the accusation is not going to hold much water. But if if isn't, the pilots are advised to add L4+ French to their license.

Also isn't there some legal prescription that you conduct radio traffic only in the language(s) in which you have been certified?

Switzerland on the other hand isn't bothered with FR (or DE) only, considering we use English anyway to understand each other when internal language barriers are crossed .

[WestWind1950]

Spitoon is right. It has actually ALWAYS been the rule, that if an airfield is designated for a certain language in the AIP, for example German or French only, then you could not fly there if you had no knowledge i.e. radio licence in that language. More then likely the guy/gal in the tower doesn't speak English at all. Now, with the new ICAO requirements, that also means at least a 4 in that language.

At the moment we do not have any examiners for German level 4 in German, so that is still on the back burner, but it will come. Natives are able, however, to get a German level 6 in their licence.

Of course, since you from UK are so used to everyone using English on a regular, and daily, basis, you don't realise what's going on in the rest of the flying world.

[172driver]

So, assuming one is proficient in other languages, how does one get this added to the UK license ?

[Contacttower]

Of course, since you from UK are so used to everyone using English on a regular, and daily, basis, you don't realise what's going on in the rest of the flying world.

True I didn't know about there being a formal exam; although obviously I've always known that in a lot of countries english is only spoken at international airports.

Everything I've read on here, in magazines and in books about the subject of flying in France have stressed the necessity of only using FR only airports if you are a good French speaker and specifically knowing the French aviation words and the variations on how things are said (for example using whole numbers often to describe runways, QHN etc rather than digits). I have never come across anything that actually says it must say on my licence that I have level 4 proficiency.

At the moment I doubt I would quite meet level 4 proficiency because while I have on one or two occasions had to divert into FR only airfields (I usually avoid them) due to weather etc and I've had no problem announcing my position and intentions etc I'm not sure I could be certain of understanding anything a bit irregular. If it were possible though to take an exam I would be happy to revise for it and take it. So to repeat 172driver's question...

[LH2]

Originally Posted by Contacttower

So to repeat 172driver's question...

Call the DGAC and they will advise you on where and for how much you can take an ICAO language proficiency test in French. I'm not sure if simply doing the R/T exam with a regular examiner will get you a proficiency rating (or other than six like in the UK).

I reckon it's probably advisable to take the test if you think your French is not quite up to scratch, purely for the safety benefit of improving your language skills.

[dublinpilot]

But the DGAC can't add a language proficiency to a UK licence.

Are we sure that there is such a proficiency test? Are we sure that one is required and this isn't some local CFI on a solo run?

I've asked about this in the past and the advice was also that there is were no language proficiency tests required for French or German only airfields, and that the only one you needed was English. Obviously you must have some grasp of the language that you'll need to operate at a foreign language only airfield, but I don't believe that you need to pass a test.

As this is all from one local airfield in France, I highly suspect it's a local CFI on a solo run.

I can't see how the DGAC could add any language proficiency to my IAA licence. Certainly nobody other than an Irish examiner was acceptable to the IAA for English language proficiency testing. I can't imagine that they retain a French, German, Polish, Russian etc language proficiency testers.

I'm really suspicious about this.

[patowalker]

Are we sure that there is such a proficiency test? Are we sure that one is required and this isn't some local CFI on a solo run?

I am sure it is a solo run, by someone totally pi**ed off with Brits who think they have a right to use English everywhere. On A/A broken French will normally result in someone coming on air in English to assist.

Just in case there is any doubt about using Welsh: according to French RT regulations, it would be possible to use the language in certain circumstances.

See 2.2 on page 13 here https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv...ADIOTEL_V2.pdf

[Jan Olieslagers]

I am sure it is a solo run, by someone totally pi**ed off with Brits who think they have a right to use English everywhere.

Yes that seems obvious to me too, though it might as well have been a US'an. For the given job, these have less quantity but lots more quality, as a whole.

On A/A broken French will normally result in someone coming on air in English to assist.

Again, agreed, even if the English might be equally broken. But it would take something special to take the average French(wo)man out of their traditional courtoisie.