Rudder issues

[overun]

Piper etc.

Are you saying " l`ll show you mine, if you show me yours ?"

Lady, put up or relax.

[Pilot DAR]

Thick and Thicker. You have no concept of what is at stake.

Oh, am I "thick" or "thicker"? Whichever I am, which concept does overun think I am missing? Like every pilot, I have many to learn, and I would happily take flying instruction from Piper Classique any day!

Experience is of course a real assect to safe piloting. Attitude even more so.

So far, an adequate number of people have found my experience and attitude at least appropriate to keep me employed in the aviation industry for many decades. Similarly so for Piper Classique.

Lady, put up or relax

I'll know that Piper Classique can put up, but she'll probably relax, it's the experienced attitude!

Speedbird you ought to be doing it for free mate. ln the current climate for petrol money, since your grasp of light aircraft after all these years is close to the square root of

The drift of this thread seemed to wander toward a suggestion that persons with something to offer to the new person in aviation, should do it for nothing. Some do, I do on occasion, but no one should feel obliged, or worse be bullied into it.

Every person who offers their skill to get an aircraft safely airborne, should expect to be paid appropriately for their services. The sum of that is the cost to fly. If someone expects to fly for less than that, either they expect someone to work for nothing, or someone else to fund their flying.

High expectations!

So overun, what experience is at the foundation of the attitude you present?

[cockney steve]

He probably berates a doctor or surgeon who will only deploy their skills if the remuneration is forthcoming....Or perhaps he's a member of a religious order who gives their " services " for free, 'cos they beg donations from the rest of the populace to fund their "altruistic" lifestyle.

Sorry, mate, the reality is , any person investing a large amount of time/effort in aquiring a specific set of knowledge or skills , has a totally reasonable right to sell the results to anyone whowould prefer to expend their energies on something else....of necessity, I simplify.....Don't want to pay the supermarket?

then learn to fish, raise/kill/prepare your own meat, grow your own crops etc.

that's the reason we have a CIVILISATION.....some are more adept at different things than others, so we all try to play to our own strengths and make the best return on our efforts..in turn, this allows us to barter services from others.

Don't want to pay for flight-instruction? (I doubt the Wright Bro's could find anyone! ) then build your own plane and teach yourself to fly it (they did! )


Nobody is forcing you to use an instructor who is overpriced...if the pupil feels the value is not there, he'll find another.


IMHO Ghenghis was ,as his name suggests, on the button and was just gently chiding the offending poster.....if you don't think that was gentle, google the original Ghengis

[Pilot DAR]

Excellent, Cockney Steve!

[Piper.Classique]

Cockney Steve, Pilot Dar, you both make good and valid points. Sadly, I think Overun has knotted himself up so much in his/her own lack of logic that he/she is unlikely to take a reasoned argument on board. So, I think I will leave him/her to reflect on your answers, assuming that reflection is possible in his/her case. Just off to relax with a glass of wine, not holding my breath for a sensible point from overun...

[overun]

One question before your chests expand so much that the vacuum stops

further breathing.

lf you came across a seriously messy accident on the road how much

would you charge the dying for your ability to help ?

Normal time ? double time ? What about a Bank Holiday Sunday ?

Pilot DAR,
Cockney steve,
Piper.Classique

Fecking shocking.

[Pilot DAR]

Well, I don't equate the choice and desire of a person to learn to fly, with the same seriousness of extreme personal peril, however, since you asked:

how much

would you charge the dying for your ability to help ?

I will proudly report that I have been a volunteer firefighter for my community for 21 years. I started by offering my ability to use my plane for searches on the lake, particularly in poor ice conditions. I was promptly hired on, and when I respond to all matter of calls, my community pays me what equals about one sixth my normal hourly rate. I give away the 5 sixths.

However, I will point out that many of the people who require the search because of their foolish venturing out in unsafe conditions, offer nothing back toward the cost of the search and rescue. In 20 years, I have flown about 130 hours of search in my plane, and paid the rental for 3 more hours in a local 172 ('cause it was more convenient at the moment) and have never been paid a penny for it. I also donate back hundreds of hour a year in equipment fabrication and maintenance.

So, while you're pondering who will provide free training to you, I might be off at the aforementioned road collision, picking pieces of person up from 100 yards of highway.

If you would like free flight training information, review our posts here - they're free!

[fattony]

I love PPRuNe. Every thread seems to end in a flame war. It's better than a TV Soap Opera.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by cockney steve

IMHO Ghenghis was ,as his name suggests, on the button and was just gently chiding the offending poster.....if you don't think that was gentle, google the original Ghengis

I've always been fascinated by the life of Temujin, who later became Genghis Khan, and there's much to be learned from somebody who went from naked and friendless in the middle of the Mongolian Steppe aged around 12, to ruling around a third of the known world age 35.

But, he did have his grumpy days. Wiping out the entire population of Beijing for not paying their taxes is a particularly strong example.

Taking him as a role model, I allow myself the odd grumpy day, and think that telling somebody not to be so self-rightous once in a while is not being particularly severe.

G