Contacttower

I've recently started experimenting with using my iPad (well actually my girlfriends ) for displaying plogs and approach plates etc. I bought a knee board style holder for it which has hard surface to write on at the front and overall it seems to work quite well. Its not 3G one though so I'm still reliant on wifi for checking the weather etc.

Has anyone else started using them and if so what apps do you use and how do they integrate into your other flight planning/cockpit resources?

BackPacker

Air Nav Pro, iAIP, Aeroweather and a few more or less generic tools for viewing the AIP, filing flight plans, checking the weather, reserving the aircraft and so forth.

Recent thread here:

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...r-nav-pro.html

Get the 3G version with the integrated GPS!

AdamFrisch

It's my main navigational tool! I have recently bought a holder and will attach it to the dash in a more permanent fashion. I have a GNC 300XL as a backup (and com), but the database is like 5 years old so can't be relied on.

IO540

I have tried and tried to use an Ipad2...

It works well as an approach plate display device - basically it makes an excellent PDF document reader.

What the above pic doesn't show is that while the LS800 (a long outdated product costing Ģ1800+VAT in 2005) remains readable even in direct sunlight, the Ipad is nearly invisible in that case, and that is with the Ģ25 matt filter on it (in the above pic).

So, in a cockpit with big windows, and sunshine (in high altitude IFR one is in sunshine 99% of the time) one has to orientate an Ipad suitably, and this is sometimes awkward. But it clearly works.

However I also try to use it as a moving map GPS, because that is primarily what my LS800 does. On it, I have the "real printed" VFR charts for all of Europe, so I can always see airports, CAS, terrain, etc for emergency use, and for VFR hacking around the UK.

And it fails miserably there, because I have not yet found any way to run European VFR charts (of whatever origin, legal or not) on it. Once Oziexplorer becomes available for IOS, that will solve that issue, but currently only MM runs, and with only UK maps.

And the built-in GPS is crap. It gets a fix OK in the air, after a few mins, but it loses it readily too, and MM does not indicate this. You just notice the map has stopped moving.... I made some enquiries and apparently the IOS API does not pass the application the detailed satellite status, which sounds incredible

I have never seen a GPS that bad. Many GPSs integrated into electronic products won't get a fix when airborne (satellite phone GPSs chief among them, rendering the phone useless) when switched on, but to just lose it randomly is unusual.

So one would have to use an external GPS. I already have a nice bluetooth one, running off a proper rooftop antenna but of course the Apple Politburo decided to not support serial NMEA so it doesn't work. You have to get a special GPS, and none of them have an external antenna input.

So I have given up on the GPS for now, and carry the Ipad sometimes as an approach plate backup. All the main routepack data is still printed on paper Which makes sense because if you have it on an Ipad, you need a backup for that, but you don't need a backup for paper.

The Ipad will also shut down if too warm. A number of pilots have reported this. It may be related to the use of the plastic flip-cover sleeve.

The Ipad also doesn't have any way to use a satellite phone to get weather. A jailbroken one probably can...

The Ipad cannot do SMS, which is a little hassle when using flight plan filing services which use SMS notifications. It can receive network-originated SMS but otherwise Apple have blocked SMS functionality deliberately. A jailbroken Ipad does full SMS.

As regards the Ipad's other applications, you either love it or hate it It was super for hammering the JAA IR question bank (e.g. Air Law 37 times) while lying on a beanbag, and it's good for document reading anywhere. It's OK for primitive email usage. It's a very good web browser (with some incompatibility issues with sites on which IE and FF work OK). It has some curious issues (shared with an Iphone4) on auto selection between GPRS/3G and WIFI when both are available, or just available, which sometimes mean you get no internet at all, unless you disable one or the other.

It also cannot connect to a standard bluetooth phone (Nokia E51) for internet access; this is a pity as when abroad one doesn't always want to buy a separate EU Data Bundle just for the SIM card in the Ipad. It works fine with an E585 which is a very good solution for all kinds of travel stuff.

Oh I nearly forgot... I hate Itunes It's one of the most horridly written windoze apps. Fortunately there are programs which can transfer data to an Ipad directly - with various limitations.

SDB73

I agree with IO540 on the whole.

For some reason, the iPad seems to me to just feel "not suited" to air navigation.

It can physically do it all, AirNav Pro will run UK charts, and as long as you're happy with north up (which I personally am), they're completely fine. As IO says it's great as a doc reader for plates, etc.

But somehow it just doesn't feel solid enough.

The visibility I also concur is pretty poor in the sun - something I guess it's just not meant for, and there is a polarisation issue if you wear polarised glasses, depending on which orientation you have it.

It's too big to be mounted up high, and too difficult to use mounted on your leg (again, just in my opinion).

But I will say that I've had mixed experiences with the GPS, and from my experience it may work fine in your aeroplane (As I've seen it work fine in some), but in mine it doesn't, and loses position fairly regularly - probably would be fine if mounted high?

The apps you need to make it work fairly well are pretty expensive, but most of them have a free version to allow you to trial them.

I certainly wouldn't buy an iPad to use as an in flight tool, but if you already have an iPad you owe it to yourself to try it out at least.

Contacttower

Are you using the special Jeppesen app that allows you to use JeppView? At the moment since I don't have an electronic Jeppesen sub I'm just downloading AIP plates into iBooks, which actually works OK, but I assume there are other apps which are better for viewing approach plates?

I don't really have any interest in using it as a GPS since its unlikely that I would ever be flying an aircraft without a panel mounted one and when I do I have a handheld Garmin anyway which obviously works better.

I guess especially for IFR flight the essential issue is the back-up of the plates, I did use it without a back up for a very short IFR flight recently when I knew I would be in visual conditions the whole time. Some things like the enroute or VFR chart I'm never going to give up the paper one but for plates what would people consider to be a sensible approach? At the moment I generally print destination and alternate.

I noticed that EuroFPL now let you download entire countries worth of AIP plates, I did that onto my computer but I couldn't get it to load onto the iPad and the 'iPad' link didn't seem to work (which I'll contact them about) which would be great because then one would never have to worry about being caught without plates.

BackPacker have you used iAIP?

BackPacker

I bought iAIP and gave it two stars in my review. On the one hand it's a bit more convenient than downloading and browsing a countries AIP with generic tools, on the other hand a few days after I bought it NL went to a new AIRAC cycle which broke iAIP. (fixed now)

It's cheap and sort of fulfills it purpose but honestly, yes, I wouldn't miss it if it wouldn't exist.

IO540

No; that was just a PDF printed from (I think; somebody gave it to me) Jeppview, running under Goodreader in the Ipad case. The LS800 has a UK only sub.

I have no interest in giving Jepp ~ Ģ2000/year for a European sub, which is the cost no matter how you get the data - JV3, some MFD sub, or the Ipad viewer.

tmmorris

Contacttower - try Goodreader, much better than iBooks. Not free, though.

I've played with iCharts (EAG, private subscriptions not available yet but you can use the sample data) and the Jeppesen app - indistinguishable, really. AIP charts don't display well on the iPad, too fiddly.

I had a play with my iPad on Wednesday in the sunshine at Gloucester (that was me in the blue and white PA28 from about 1015-1115, if you were there!) and found it

a. too big to yoke mount on a PA28 - barely fits in the space!
b. too big to mount on the glareshield
c. fits nicely on my kneepad

so I think I will be looking further at EFB uses for it, and buying a proper aviation GPS (Skydemon?) to replace my Airmap 1000 now the latter doesn't get any database updates (gee thanks, Lowrance...)

Tim

Contacttower

I'm guessing from the relatively few replies that the answer to many original question is not many; which I find a bit surprising considering that regular users of an internet forum are likely to be more technology orientated I would have thought.

Thanks, it was only $4.99 so not a big deal. Downloaded it and then with the app's download manager I was able to download the EuroFPL regional chart pack for France for example. Granted the charts are not as good as the Jeppesen ones but unlike the UK ones they are complete (ie have RVR mins and don't need system minima adding to the MDAs) and ready to use.

As far as the issue with the screen in bright sunlight is concerned I have only found it a problem if the screen is very smeared from repeated use. Give it a wipe with your sleeve or something now and again and I find it to be readable. I appreciate that in some cockpits with a lot more window space than the C182 and PA28 that I have used it in readability might be more of an issue though.

This is what I've been using in the cockpit to hold the iPad. Only thing it lacks is a pen holder.

BackPacker

There were at least two recent threads about the iPad on here. I have linked to one of them earlier on. There's not a lot that happened in the iPad world inbetween those threads and this one so I'm guessing a lot of people choose not to duplicate their posts.

Anyway, yes, the iPad has its limits and I'm pretty sure there are better devices to be found if you need a dedicated navigation tool. What appeals to me however is the versatility of the device. To a large extent it's the only electronic device I take with me on flying trips, holidays, work, hobby and whatnot. I use it for flight planning, flight execution, watching videos, listening to music, sketching, taking pictures, Geocaching, playing games, reading books, doing presentations (with an iPad<->VGA cable), annotating PDFs I have to review, photo album, browsing the web, twitter, catching up with the news, planning car and public transport journeys and so on and so forth.

Contacttower

True, although the previous threads seemed to be specific to particular software and uses, I was just tying to get a broader view of what people where using them for and how. Thanks for you input BP (and others...)

RWY AHEAD

Paul Bertorelli for AVweb reviewed the original iPad after release for use as an EFB in flight here:


And a few months later compared it to Garmin's GPSmap 696 here:


He raises some good points about the practicality of an iPad in the cockpit like others have said, and how the readability in sun light is an issue, although it does have it's uses...
Drinks tray anyone??

Humaround

SDB73 said "AirNav Pro will run UK charts, and as long as you're happy with north up (which I personally am), they're completely fine."

ANP can do track up - it's a little symbol in the top left corner.

I find ANP pretty good, even on a brightish day (yesterday) en route to Sywell in a Jodel. Certainly better than cheap colour GPS (Aware).

One strange thing - I couldn't find any way to reverse a route?

Something else - ANP often crashes (disappears) shortly after loading - if it gets past the first few seconds, it's fine after that. Anyone else get this?

Ultra long hauler

I hear ya!!
Recently I started a thread about avionics (Dynon) etc and only 2 people and a tin of beans replied.
I would have thought there is more interest for stuff like that…….on a site like PPRune.

Same here, my girlfriendīs I-pad, without 3G, just WiFi.

To answer your question, in my case: no!
Where I fly, the readability in bright sunlight is a major issue.
I saw a beautiful suction cup system for the Ipad in a magazine the other day, but itīs just not worth it if I canīt read the screen for many hours a day.

Instead I robbed a bank and went for the Garmin 695, and that one is BRIGHT indeed! I guess I got a bit of a tan just playing with it the other day.

###Ultra Long Hauler###

IO540

Here is another Iphone/Ipad application.

It is a bit of a joke, because the plane has to be carefully levelled, and then you press the middle of the "instrument" and that levels it.

BackPacker

Got that too. It's a gimmick, no use in real flying. But I think I paid two bucks for it, so I'm not going to delete it (just yet).

Genghis the Engineer

An artificial horizon should not be trusted at-all on a flat device because it's based upon accelerometers and not any form of gyroscope.

I have one (free) on my Android phone, fun to play with, absolutely untrustworthy for flight use.

G

BackPacker

Doesn't the iPad include a few gyroscopes? Electronic ones, sure, not those with spinning masses, but still? I though it did, in addition to linear acceleratometers.

Edited: Apple themselves does claim so.

Apple - iPad 2 - View the technical specifications for iPad 2.

dutch crosswind

Here (in Thailand) a waste of money. No VFR charts, no approach plates, no weather. Too much sun and always between 35 and 40 degrees..
It's only for the US.