3 Axis Microlights...
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3 Axis Microlights...
Ok before I get flamed for not searching on this, I have spent the last 2 evenings searching here, Pilotweb, flyer forums, google, you name it and still cant come up with a 'definitive' answer.
Basically I'm seriously thinking of getting a small cheap and fun 3 Axis microlight to base somewhere in the Aberdeen area (Insch I suppose) given that my Group A stuff is based at Perth and that it would be nice to have something close by that I can get my flying fix in after work on the odd sunny evening without spending 3 hours driving there and back.
I am however very confused about the legalities of flying such a machine on my Group A licences ?!?! I have a CAA PPL and a JAR CPL and about 100hrs on group A machines with a MTOW of less than 400kg so am no stranger to a lack of inertia....
So far just about every answer I've found seems to contradict the previous one. I've seen some suggestions saying that I can fly such a machine on a UK PPL with no differences training but that on a JAR PPL differences training is required. I've seen another post saying that a full skills test needs to be passed and a Microlight theory exam has to be done, I've then seen another saying that the UK PPL can only be used if you have microlight time logged prior to 2008 ?!?!? There is then a whole heap of stuff about ditching the PPL and going NPPL which I'm not interested in doing.
Does anyone have an 'official' answer to this before I take the last resort of picking up the phone to the CAA?!?!?
Any advice very much appreciated!
Regards
UA
Basically I'm seriously thinking of getting a small cheap and fun 3 Axis microlight to base somewhere in the Aberdeen area (Insch I suppose) given that my Group A stuff is based at Perth and that it would be nice to have something close by that I can get my flying fix in after work on the odd sunny evening without spending 3 hours driving there and back.
I am however very confused about the legalities of flying such a machine on my Group A licences ?!?! I have a CAA PPL and a JAR CPL and about 100hrs on group A machines with a MTOW of less than 400kg so am no stranger to a lack of inertia....
So far just about every answer I've found seems to contradict the previous one. I've seen some suggestions saying that I can fly such a machine on a UK PPL with no differences training but that on a JAR PPL differences training is required. I've seen another post saying that a full skills test needs to be passed and a Microlight theory exam has to be done, I've then seen another saying that the UK PPL can only be used if you have microlight time logged prior to 2008 ?!?!? There is then a whole heap of stuff about ditching the PPL and going NPPL which I'm not interested in doing.
Does anyone have an 'official' answer to this before I take the last resort of picking up the phone to the CAA?!?!?
Any advice very much appreciated!
Regards
UA
Firstly Group A ceased to exist over 10 years ago. You are quite right there is a confusing plethora of information floating about, some caused by the CAA who couldn't grasp that most Microlights are actually Single Engine aeroplanes driven by a Piston engine. You can fly them quite legally under the UK ANO on a SEP class rating on either a UK or UK issued JAA licence. Differences, or familiarisation training is advisable, but not mandatory.
The rules do differ from country to country as a result of different definitions and licensing requirements. JAR-FCL 1.005 contains a statement that has attracted a number of different interpretations
This does not have any legal status in the UK, and was primarily to prevent hour builders logging time on aircraft that might not even need a licence to fly.
The rules do differ from country to country as a result of different definitions and licensing requirements. JAR-FCL 1.005 contains a statement that has attracted a number of different interpretations
(5) Whenever a reference is made to
aeroplanes this does not include microlights
as defined nationally, unless otherwise
specified.
aeroplanes this does not include microlights
as defined nationally, unless otherwise
specified.
Firstly, somebody has already come in and criticised use of the term "Group A", so I'll simply say I couldn't care less and we all know what you mean.
Assuming that you have SEP currency, Microlights for your JAR CPL, and I think your UK PPL now (although not previously, the rule became retrospective) requires differences training only.
In essence you need to fly a suitable 3-axis microlight with a suitable instructor (microlight instructor, or a JAR instructor with microlight currency) until they are happy and prepared to sign your logbook for the differences training.
This differences training can be the type checkout with an instructor anyhow and that can be your differences training flight at the same time with no extra cost. There is no minimum length of this training - half an hour may well do it.
That's it - have fun. List of microlight clubs and schools in your neck of the woods here; I doubt you'll find a bad microlight school, they're all very much enthusiasm led. Do be aware that if you plan to fly some of the older very high drag/low interia, 2-stroke engined microlights a lot of the newer instructors have never flown these. The newer 4-stroke engined aeroplanes will be much closer to your lighter "group a" experience anyway and the checkout would be a pure formality.
As Whopity quotes, microlight flying for you will require SEP currency but the microlight hours won't count towards your SEP recency requirements.
G
Assuming that you have SEP currency, Microlights for your JAR CPL, and I think your UK PPL now (although not previously, the rule became retrospective) requires differences training only.
In essence you need to fly a suitable 3-axis microlight with a suitable instructor (microlight instructor, or a JAR instructor with microlight currency) until they are happy and prepared to sign your logbook for the differences training.
This differences training can be the type checkout with an instructor anyhow and that can be your differences training flight at the same time with no extra cost. There is no minimum length of this training - half an hour may well do it.
That's it - have fun. List of microlight clubs and schools in your neck of the woods here; I doubt you'll find a bad microlight school, they're all very much enthusiasm led. Do be aware that if you plan to fly some of the older very high drag/low interia, 2-stroke engined microlights a lot of the newer instructors have never flown these. The newer 4-stroke engined aeroplanes will be much closer to your lighter "group a" experience anyway and the checkout would be a pure formality.
As Whopity quotes, microlight flying for you will require SEP currency but the microlight hours won't count towards your SEP recency requirements.
G
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The frozen north....
Age: 49
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Thanks kindly for the advice chaps, seems again we have 2 differences of opinion regarding differences training!
My preference is actually a rag and tube 2 stroke (AX3 or similar) as they quite simply look like great fun and amazing value.
With regards my SEP currency I regularly fly my 2 machines out of Perth anyway so that’s not a problem, just fancy the ability to bimble around on a summers evening without having to spend hours driving….
I actually tried Gliding at my local site over the last few weeks, the instructor was good and I got through a good chunk of the solo syllabus very quickly but the unwelcoming and unfriendly attitude of the majority of members was enough to put me off.....
My preference is actually a rag and tube 2 stroke (AX3 or similar) as they quite simply look like great fun and amazing value.
With regards my SEP currency I regularly fly my 2 machines out of Perth anyway so that’s not a problem, just fancy the ability to bimble around on a summers evening without having to spend hours driving….
I actually tried Gliding at my local site over the last few weeks, the instructor was good and I got through a good chunk of the solo syllabus very quickly but the unwelcoming and unfriendly attitude of the majority of members was enough to put me off.....
Thanks kindly for the advice chaps, seems again we have 2 differences of opinion regarding differences training!
My preference is actually a rag and tube 2 stroke (AX3 or similar) as they quite simply look like great fun and amazing value.
I actually tried Gliding at my local site over the last few weeks, the instructor was good and I got through a good chunk of the solo syllabus very quickly but the unwelcoming and unfriendly attitude of the majority of members was enough to put me off..
G
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Thanks for that Genghis, there is actually a Microlight school at Perth with an Instructor I know well so I can get him to do me a quick checkout, as you say nothing to lose and makes sense from a safety perspective.
Seem to be a couple of AX3's for sale at the moment so finding one shouldnt be a problem, just need to find somewhere to keep it! I've read that they are pretty robust and can be kept outside as long as the engine is covered, not ideal but if thats all I can get locally then so be it!
As for gliding, I've seen the threads and was actually warned by a few ex-members who are now powered pilots but I thought I'd find out for myself, have to say its pretty much as they said it would be!
Seem to be a couple of AX3's for sale at the moment so finding one shouldnt be a problem, just need to find somewhere to keep it! I've read that they are pretty robust and can be kept outside as long as the engine is covered, not ideal but if thats all I can get locally then so be it!
As for gliding, I've seen the threads and was actually warned by a few ex-members who are now powered pilots but I thought I'd find out for myself, have to say its pretty much as they said it would be!
Quite a few aeroplanes will de-rig easily into a trailer or container.
If you're after a rag and tube, the most important thing is to protect the flying surfaces from UV, so whilst they can be left outdoors, really heavy lightproof covers are really important. Covering the engine and cockpit obviously makes sense as well.
Aeroplanes I particularly like at the very cheap end of this class: Thruster TST/T300, X'Air, AX3 - but there are loads of others. This might be useful as a buyers guide.
G
If you're after a rag and tube, the most important thing is to protect the flying surfaces from UV, so whilst they can be left outdoors, really heavy lightproof covers are really important. Covering the engine and cockpit obviously makes sense as well.
Aeroplanes I particularly like at the very cheap end of this class: Thruster TST/T300, X'Air, AX3 - but there are loads of others. This might be useful as a buyers guide.
G
The AX3 was the first type I soloed after years of Cessna 150/152. It IS great fun albeit a bit slow (about 57kt cruise depending on engine), but it's low stalling speed means you can do things a Cessna could never do eg curving 'Spitfire' approaches at 45kt ias, and its rate of climb one up is very good. A perfect 'STOL' type too; approach at 45 and by the time you've flared, the drag of the airframe has bled off so much speed that your landing roll is 100ft or less!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: The frozen north....
Age: 49
Posts: 547
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Fun is all I'm looking for! If I want to go fast I have my Cassutt and can cruise at 180mph, If I want to go long distances in comfort I have the Tri Pacer so all I need is something cheap & fun as close to home as possible...
An AX3 or similar would be an ideal addition to the 'fleet'! My Wife might not think so however!
An AX3 or similar would be an ideal addition to the 'fleet'! My Wife might not think so however!
UK licencing rules are a complete buggers muddle these days.
Another thing about the AX3 is that unlike the usual spamcans, you need to 'fly' it all the time; I was always fiddling with the trimmer and I found it easy to fly along with the slip ball well off centre without realising it!!
