French airspace regulation for foreigners

[Le Bigleux]

Hi,

Many foreign pilots (of which some of you PPRuNers may be) appreciate coming in France by aerial means. Nothing wrong with that, however I would like to highlight some French regulation points. Please be aware that my English language ability is far from perfect but I hope to not offend anyone

I guess I'm pointing the obvious here but outside ATS hours you must use French language on airfield frequencies (and even within ATS hours for some of them!) If you pass your messages in English, be sure that a significant number of local pilots will not understand any of your words. This is not a legend: French people SUCK at foreign languages! (methinks "to suck at" is US wording, but you get the idea)

The other point is one which seemed to be ignored: when you join an uncontrolled airfield (whether there is an AFIS or not) it is mandatory to join the circuit pattern in the beginning of the downwind leg.
However you can do a direct final approach or a "semi-direct" approach (joining in the base leg) if and only if these three conditions are met:

• an AFIS is active;
• radio is mandatory on the airfield;
• there is no aircraft in the airfield traffic (which means circuit pattern + movements on the ground).

The regulation is here, in §1.4.2 : https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv...08_ENR-1.1.pdf

Foreign aircrafts seem to have the bad habit of joining directly in the final leg when there is no active ATS. I don't know if it's legal in other countries (maybe in UK at least?)

Now consider this: the other day I was with a student of mine in circuit patterns. I heard a message in English from another aircraft. He told he would report directly on final... of the opposite runway! (He was probably not proficient in French, otherwise he would have understood us)
I announced in English the runway in use so he joined the correct downwind leg. Afterwards I passed all my messages in French then in English so he could understand what we were doing. Unfortunately I had to leave the airfield after debriefing my student so I didn't have time to speak with the pilot (I even don't know where he came from as he had a microlight reg).

If my student had been alone, he wouldn't have understood a single word; besides it would have been the case of many licenced pilots I know.
The other pilot wouldn't have understood him and could have been in final, face to the student in initial climb.
This is leading to an interesting safety case.

A friend of mine reported to me a similar occurence with another student about to take off and an aircraft announcing it will report final on the opposite runway. He was on the holding point and told the student to hold position to prevent a near miss (or worse).

So please, if you plan to come to France be careful about this. If you're not proficient in French avoid airfields without an active ATS; otherwise be fully aware that you are likely to not be understood (in addition to be in breach of the law). And if you still decide to go to such an airfield, please go overhead first to check the runway in use: it could save you some bad surprises.

To be honest I have no idea of the frequency of occurence as few foreign GA aircrafts come to my airfield, and no idea on the legality of this pratice in other countries.
This is not about pointing fingers but to highlight some French specifities which seem to be hardly known (and also make you warn your friends about those if they plan to come here)

Oh, there is also an additional regulation on overflying heights. No, ICAO requirements are not enough in France. But this is boring and I don't feel like to write on it
You can however find it in the AIP, this is §1.2.5.3 in the following link: https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv...08_ENR-1.2.pdf
(I concur this is not as thrilling as the Millenium trilogy)

Please ask me for any clarification, I will answer with pleasure.

[The500man]

Languages and flight safety don't go together. I understand the point you are making about an english speaking pilot speaking English at a French speaking airfield, but what if there was an urgent reason to land? Maybe this is a question for seasoned european tourers; if you plan a flight from x to y with alternate z (all ATS airports), and then one of your passengers became seriously ill, would you continue to the destination or alternate if the nearest airfield was a French speaking one?

I know legally you are not supposed to land at French airfields if you are not proficent in French, but would something like this be an exception? In the OPs example of his student flying solo, he'd probably have no clue what you were doing.

I have seen other threads about English speaking pilots flying into ATS airports in France, where French traffic spoke only French. Not good for avoiding conflict.

Wouldn't it be easier if we all just spoke English!

[Jan Olieslagers]

No, it wouldn't be easier TO ALL to speak English ALL OF US - that would only be easier to native speakers of English. I seem to remember these are not a majority among the world's population. Of course we know they are numerous among pilots, especially in North America, but that's as far as it goes. Would you really require all R/T at a recreational field in Sweden or Ukraine or wherever to be done in English, just against the odd chance of one visitor popping up who doesn't master local language? So that instead of one pilot having a language issue, suddenly most pilots would have one?

You may be sure English R/T will not help you an inch neither in Spain nor in Italy, at the average recreational aerodrome. But above all: bar local regulations, R/T is optional anyway; in other words, our safety should never be dependent on the availability of intelligible radio communication.

(but yes, I did notice the emoticon...)

Our safety should depend on good sense and strong air(wo)manship and complying with local usage - which may even vary from field to field, far more between countries. So yes, the opening message is an excellent idea, congrats and gratitude to the O/P!

That said, I have some thoughts about the opening message:

-) here in Belgium, the official way is to join overhead at 500 feet above circuit altitude (unless express contradictory ruling, as exists at winch-launching glider sites), then join downwind (and "downwind" is really short for "beginning of downwind", or so I was taught!) while descending to circuit altitude, and complete the circuit; however at many places it is common usage to join overhead, then turn 90 degrees to the runway heading to join MIDDLE OF downwind &c &c

-)regarding your little story, I often found it striking that French fields have no notion of an "active" runway; actually I have at least once heard a visiting pilot inquire what runway to use, only to get a cool reply along the lines of "oh, you just pick your own, there's not much wind today" which I would find bewildering, to say the least. The more so that less and less fields have a signal square, I even understand the SIA (or the DGAC?) is actively discouraging a/d operators from having one. So that, as a visitor, I can well imagine being quite at a loss choosing which runway to land on. But perhaps I experienced this at ulmodromes aka microlight sites.

[AnglianAV8R]

How very strange, last time I flew through France on my way to Holland, I spoke to a charming young lady from Lille Information who spoke Very good English in a rather nice accent Perhaps I was just lucky and caught them on a good day.

[patowalker]

Wouldn't it be easier if we all just spoke English!

Yeah, and just speak louder if the natives don't understand you.

How very strange, last time I flew through France on my way to Holland, I spoke to a charming young lady from Lille Information who spoke Very good English in a rather nice accent

You obviously did not understand the OP's very good English. He wrote:

I guess I'm pointing the obvious here but outside ATS hours you must use French language on airfield frequencies (and even within ATS hours for some of them!)

[Jan Olieslagers]

Ah! them charming French ladies! Yes, they can make good days, sometimes. The younger ones especially. On the radio, that is.

[TractorBoy]

Oh, there is also an additional regulation on overflying heights. No, ICAO requirements are not enough in France. But this is boring and I don't feel like to write on it
You can however find it in the AIP, this is §1.2.5.3 in the following link: https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv...08_ENR-1.2.pdf
(I concur this is not as thrilling as the Millenium trilogy)

Not ploughing through that document, but I presume this refers to variable heights based on town size/population? They're nicely colour-coded on the ICN maps - its surprising the number of people I've spoken to who don't realise these restrictions.

[proudprivate]

A/A in the local language

French people SUCK at foreign languages!

You're not trolling are you ?

Uncontrolled A/A comms in the local language are common in France and Germany. It is not a bad idea to learn things like "vent arrière" or "Endanflug"

what if there was an urgent reason to land?

Then you would declare an emergency, and announce it on the A/A frequency, which means you would start in French without even knowing it

But really, if flying in France or Germany, I would strongly recommend preparing a few sentences and phrases precisely for the occasion you mention

English to French aviation translations
English to German aviation translations

not necessarily limiting yourself to aviation speak at that (e.g. "My passenger has fainted and bleeds out of his nose. Can someone on the ground call an ambulance please ?").

I have seen other threads about English speaking pilots flying into ATS airports in France, where French traffic spoke only French. Not good for avoiding conflict.

But the controllers are all at least Level 4 ICAO English Proficient. Sometimes they start in French, but if you do a proper read back in English they don't persist. And they issue the clearances and do the separation.

For similar reasons as above, it's not a bad idea to know your call sign in French (or German or whatever*) so that you can recognize it if such a thing happens.


*The Ukraine for some reason is not swarming with light GA traffic; And in Sweden they speak English.

[The500man]

Yeah, and just speak louder if the natives don't understand you.

Yes but only if they're hard of hearing! Otherwise it's rude (like when foreigners come here and shout loudly at each other).


Edit: This is brilliant information!

"My passenger has fainted and bleeds out of his nose. Can someone on the ground call an ambulance please ?"

[patowalker]

It is a sad fact that many British pilots believe they have a right to use English at all airfields abroad. It would be bad enough if this resulted in injury to themselves, but the accident could involve innocents and insurance might be invalidated.

[Contacttower]

"My passenger has fainted and bleeds out of his nose. Can someone on the ground call an ambulance please?"

I have to admit that did make my laugh a bit...

Seriously though I would not recommend going near a French airport out of ATC hours when circuit traffic will be in French if you are not reasonably proficient at speaking and understanding French yourself. Even someone who is quite good at French will probably struggle a bit with more complicated transmissions if they are not used to hearing it spoken on the radio.

I have to say though while I have no problem with local airfields using the native language I really don't like the mixing of languages on major air traffic frequencies...you don't get it in Germany or Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland etc so why can't France manage it? The rule they have about French being spoken if the aircraft wants to just seems like another silly example of their insecure obsession with the integrity and importance of their language.

[proudprivate]

When people get defensive...

The rule they have about French being spoken if the aircraft wants to just seems like another silly example of their insecure obsession with the integrity and importance of their language.

It's a very human reaction. French is, as an international language, in decline. This makes them extremely defensive. In Quebec, the situation is exacerbated by their minority status in Canada.

Similar things happen for other languagues in higher education across Europe, when proposals are launched to teach certain undergraduate courses in English. Although for some specialised topics this would indeed make sense, it is politically a nono.

Apologies for the earlier "nosebleed" example, which is of course extreme. However, a bit of multilingualism certainly opens doors, and occasionally might save lives.

Coming back to aviation : I completely concur with Contacttower. The fact that AF pilots are obliged to speak French on R/T leads - at least in the current technological environment - to reduced situational awareness.

All this could be solved if we, as Europeans, were to be able to agree on a single European airspace with clear, simplified and uniform rules. As you are hopefully well aware, the French and their language fetish is not the only potentially dangerous silliness in European aviation regulation (the latest EASA FCL draft proposal springs to mind).

For those proficient in French, but unaware of aviation French intricacies, I can recommend this book, which contains apart from the aviation terminology which you can also find on the internet, some real life examples of French aviation dialogues, read backs and miscommunications.

[FlyingLapinou]

I guess I'm pointing the obvious here but outside ATS hours you must use French language on airfield frequencies (and even within ATS hours for some of them!) If you pass your messages in English, be sure that a significant number of local pilots will not understand any of your words.

Thank you for your informative post, Le Bigleux

As I understand it, the "FR-only" requirement (which you can check at the top left of French VFR aerodrome approach charts) applies essentially - or even only? - at airfields where you are likely to find a mix of IFR/VFR traffic, and then only outside ATS hours.

Slightly surprisingly, then, at small airfields such as LFDI, which you might reasonably expect to be FR-only, it seems that you may do R/T in English, although, as Le Bigleux points out, a significant number of local pilots will not understand any of your words..

At a larger airport such as LFBE you would be required to do R/T in French outside ATC hours. Personally, I'm not sure I'd be confident relying on a cribsheet to get me through in a FR-only R/T environment.

Now, can I get anyone interested in the rules for joining French airfields with no ATS?

[S-Works]

What happened to the ICAO requirement for English to be the language of aviation?

[Pace]

The French seem to chatter non stop in their own language about anything
They are a colourful people who usually do their own thing anyway which isnt a bad thing (note the recent PPL IR ?) While we brits seem only too quick to accomodate every wim from Brussels!
Flying airways I can never understand their airway points spoken in English.
Its usually how do you spell that
Nevertheless aviation knows no boundaries and we should not have room for error hence there should be a common language used and there is its English.
If it was French then the rest of us would have to polish up our Parlais Francais.
With Europe appearing to be in financial meltdown who knows maybe EASA will go into meltdown too and the good old CAA can get their powers back!

Pace

[dublinpilot]

Maybe with Germany propping up the finances of many EU member states, and EASA based in Germany, we'll soon find that German is a compulsory language for aviation all across the EU, and English is banned!

I wonder how we'd all feel about being grounded until we learnt German?

When powered aviation was invented, I believe that French was the international language of diplomacy, not English. So it could very easily have been the case that we'd all need to speak French on the radio, if only history had been slightly different!

[S-Works]

It is a sad fact that many British pilots believe they have a right to use English at all airfields abroad. It would be bad enough if this resulted in injury to themselves, but the accident could involve innocents and insurance might be invalidated.

Whether we agree with it or not, every member of ICAO of which the French are an active member signed up to an agreement that makes English the language of aviation.

It is the reason we are all jumping through hoops to get the LPC on our licences. Just beacuse the French as usal choose to sign up to something and then completely ignore it....................

[proudprivate]

feelings

I wonder how we'd all feel about being grounded until we learnt German?

boaff... not much different I guess from the feeling about being grounded until we learn inner ear anatomy and pay for the privilege.

I think they called it "Reichsfluchtsteuer" in the old days

Whether we agree with it or not, every member of ICAO of which the French are an active member signed up to an agreement that makes English the language of aviation.

Where in the ICAO agreement does it say that ? Are you inferring that, by obliging their AF pilots to speak French in French airspace, or by imposiing French A/A at some godforsaken municipal airport they are violating ICAO ?

It is the reason we are all jumping through hoops to get the LPC on our licences

The reason we are doing that is because we feel an urgent need to subsidize inefficient businesses and because we enviously hate people executing their freedom of flight and we want to create the biggest possible inconvenience for them.

[Jan Olieslagers]

I always heard ICAO recognises English, Russian and French languages?
In one document* I even found

This Annex has been adopted in four languages — English, French, Russian and Spanish

though this might not be relevant here.

*http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Ann...0AMDT%2080.pdf

[englishal]

There's a simple rule to this. Arrive at a non ATC french airfield between 12-3pm and there will be no other traffic in the circuit as they will all be enjoying lunch !

To be fair to the OP, British people generally suck at languages too, and IMHO, the French do a better job of speaking Engeeessshhh than Brits do of speaking french