Another school bust
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IO - but not on a Sunday remember. Old Fat One - there is a lot more to this story than meets the eye - as always.
Including how the saintly one got involved in the first place, anyway, none of my business, not involved, and I am away to get three internet birds for myself - if he can do it, anyone can
Including how the saintly one got involved in the first place, anyway, none of my business, not involved, and I am away to get three internet birds for myself - if he can do it, anyone can
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Cathy had nothing to do with it other than giving details of Mairi s misfortune. Aparently there are nine other pupils owed money.The reporter got all of the information about the relationship and details of Ms Boyle and the Church from Mrs Dorrian and Mr Veitch . I knew nothing of this until the reporter told me himself . What has been printed HAS come from the horses mouths only.
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I can only assume that whilst trying to defend their failures in business and blaming each other they forgot they were spouting to reporters.Shocking it was front page news.
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What amazes me are all the comments after the story, almost entirely from involved people, not least the owner.
I am not at all legally trained, but surely making your opinions public like that and making claims about the other parties creates a rather rocky basis for any future legal recourse, and even more so opens the way for libel (or is it slander) cases.
I was always under the impression that in such circumstances, you kept quiet and let your lawyer do all the talking. Certainly makes it all a bit hard to ever take to court and have an "unbiased" jury.
Anyone with lawyerly knowledge out there? What is the story about such things?
I am not at all legally trained, but surely making your opinions public like that and making claims about the other parties creates a rather rocky basis for any future legal recourse, and even more so opens the way for libel (or is it slander) cases.
I was always under the impression that in such circumstances, you kept quiet and let your lawyer do all the talking. Certainly makes it all a bit hard to ever take to court and have an "unbiased" jury.
Anyone with lawyerly knowledge out there? What is the story about such things?
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Mairi has a new school and feels comfortable with her instructor. She and I are movinjg forward and we just have to wait and see if she gets any of her funds returned. This is all we can do .
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You contract is witha LTD compnay not the share holders.
This has happened so many times and alot of punters really do believe that they will get there money back.
But the tax man gets his first.
Then the reciever gets there's
Then the banks get there's
And then the employees get there's.
Then the punters get whats left if anything.
You will be lucky to get 2p in the pound of whats owed to you if previous schools going tits up are anything to go by.
This has happened so many times and alot of punters really do believe that they will get there money back.
But the tax man gets his first.
Then the reciever gets there's
Then the banks get there's
And then the employees get there's.
Then the punters get whats left if anything.
You will be lucky to get 2p in the pound of whats owed to you if previous schools going tits up are anything to go by.
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So do i just sit back and do nothing ?. Im not that kind of person . They are neither in receivership nor under administration.The company still has assest . I may get nothing but Im sure as hell going to try. I am fully aware what a Ltd company means . I may be at the end of the list but at least Im on the list .
Hovering AND talking
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But the tax man gets his first.
IF any company liquidators believe that the company directors have acted fraudulently, as opposed to megligently, they can apply to the courts to go after the directors personally. However, the shareholders are not involved unless they happen to be the same people.
Cheers
Whirls
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This is a"walk away from" mess. Since it was a LTd company the directors have the protection of limited liability and are only liable for the share capital that they invested in the company. To pursue them as private individuals will simply not achieve anything. To openly bad mouth them no matter how much they deserve it could lead to an accusation of harrassment!!
As regards adminstration/liquidation forget it - it simply will not happen. An insolvency practictioner will be looking for a minimum of £10,000 even to look at the company. The company will probably be left in limbo and get dissolved by companys house in due course. Any director could of course pay £10 to companys house and ask for the dissolution of the company. The notice of such would be printed in (I Think) the Edinburgh Evening news!!. Any creditor can object to this but I would suspect that if HMRC are owed monies then they would hold up the dissolution for at least 18 months.
If as reported the company owned/rented 2 aircraft then I am suprised that the Airport owner has not used the Air Navigation act to impound the aircraft awaiting payment of his debts. This happened with Comed at Blackpool some years back. It took a long time for private owners who had allowed Comed to hire their aircraft out a long time to recover their property. Anyone who may have done this through the CFS could be in for a nasty shock as they could equally be liable for the debts. I do not know how the Comed situation panned out eventually.
If anyone is thinking of making a soap out of this then I suggest that they include the going ons of Merlin ( bust Cumbernauld) and the transfer of a "club from Edinburgh" when they re located to CBN.
Must be the micro climate around that area
As regards adminstration/liquidation forget it - it simply will not happen. An insolvency practictioner will be looking for a minimum of £10,000 even to look at the company. The company will probably be left in limbo and get dissolved by companys house in due course. Any director could of course pay £10 to companys house and ask for the dissolution of the company. The notice of such would be printed in (I Think) the Edinburgh Evening news!!. Any creditor can object to this but I would suspect that if HMRC are owed monies then they would hold up the dissolution for at least 18 months.
If as reported the company owned/rented 2 aircraft then I am suprised that the Airport owner has not used the Air Navigation act to impound the aircraft awaiting payment of his debts. This happened with Comed at Blackpool some years back. It took a long time for private owners who had allowed Comed to hire their aircraft out a long time to recover their property. Anyone who may have done this through the CFS could be in for a nasty shock as they could equally be liable for the debts. I do not know how the Comed situation panned out eventually.
If anyone is thinking of making a soap out of this then I suggest that they include the going ons of Merlin ( bust Cumbernauld) and the transfer of a "club from Edinburgh" when they re located to CBN.
Must be the micro climate around that area
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As before we are fully aware of the limited liability status of the director.
The planes are elsewhere and not at Cumbernauld so Im led to believe.
The planes are unemcumbered .....ie no loans and are owned outright by the company.(from the horses mouth )
We plod on until told it is a waste of time by the people in the know , the solicitors.(paid for by insurance ).
The planes are elsewhere and not at Cumbernauld so Im led to believe.
The planes are unemcumbered .....ie no loans and are owned outright by the company.(from the horses mouth )
We plod on until told it is a waste of time by the people in the know , the solicitors.(paid for by insurance ).
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Aye but they have droppped out of a known maintence enviroment over night they have halved in value which will have been way over estimated anyway. So proberly worth now a quarter of what they have been saying. Its very rare for aircraft assets to be linked in with the school so it might not be as simple as you think.
Well as long as your not shelling out any more of your own cash carry on but please don't hang any hopes on getting an outcome that your going to be happy with. If you do get what your hoping for you will be in a minority of 1 in scotland for students recovering thier money with a school going bust.
Well as long as your not shelling out any more of your own cash carry on but please don't hang any hopes on getting an outcome that your going to be happy with. If you do get what your hoping for you will be in a minority of 1 in scotland for students recovering thier money with a school going bust.
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I remember how long an ex-Flight Academy Scotland Katana sat at Perth.
And how little it was for sale for a few years later, even with a new engine!
The two Katanas at TV's were both registered to MD, not CFC. So I presume she "leased" them to her school. She should have. So no asset there.
ps. "My" aircraft are owned by a partnership which owns the airfield, for tax reasons - something to do with capital allowances - and not owned by the flying school which uses and maintains them, which is also a limited company. So there is nothing unusual in this sort of arrangement.
Most flying schools have very few assets, and seek the protection of limited liability in case all goes wrong.
And how little it was for sale for a few years later, even with a new engine!
The two Katanas at TV's were both registered to MD, not CFC. So I presume she "leased" them to her school. She should have. So no asset there.
ps. "My" aircraft are owned by a partnership which owns the airfield, for tax reasons - something to do with capital allowances - and not owned by the flying school which uses and maintains them, which is also a limited company. So there is nothing unusual in this sort of arrangement.
Most flying schools have very few assets, and seek the protection of limited liability in case all goes wrong.
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Hello from Aus
Hi Cathy
I'm from Kirkintilloch, but now living in Melbourne - I log onto PPrune periodically and have a look at what's going on with General Aviation back home and picked up on your posts about Cumbernauld - I'm gutted to read it all.
I did a PPL at Cumbernauld Flying School - I finished it back in 2003. These were the days when the place was run by Ted and his wife Christine. I have to admit, I also paid up front, really cause that included all of the books, exams etc too.
Long story, but I had a relatively good experience during my PPL - and I stuck with the school for about a year or so after my PPL to hire the planes. For various reasons, I then moved down to Prestwick and joined Prestwick Flying Club - my flying experience just quite litterally took off from then - I LOVED it!!
The instructors are real pilots that do instructing for fun. My skills got better and my overall enjoyment got better - much more of a social side to it.
I'm not sure where you are based - Prestwick was obviously a bit more of a joint that Cumbernauld - but well WELL worth it.
I'll also tell you one wee story - once at Prestwick I soon bought a share in an aircraft that was kept down there. One sunny afternoon, I decided to take it for a flight up to Inverness. I called my girlfriend to see if she fancied coming along, which she did - and arranged to pick her up at Cumbernauld. I thought great - I'll pop in, get some lunch and say hello to Ted. When I got there, I found out that Ted had actually thrown her out of the cafe, telling her she couldn't wait in there for me - this was dispite me having paid him probably about 10,000GBP over the years. I couldn't believe it - but it sums it all up for me!
It will all work out - please let me know if you need any introductions at Prestwick. Please keep her at it!!
Good luck!
Edit - meant to send this as a PM - oh well!
I'm from Kirkintilloch, but now living in Melbourne - I log onto PPrune periodically and have a look at what's going on with General Aviation back home and picked up on your posts about Cumbernauld - I'm gutted to read it all.
I did a PPL at Cumbernauld Flying School - I finished it back in 2003. These were the days when the place was run by Ted and his wife Christine. I have to admit, I also paid up front, really cause that included all of the books, exams etc too.
Long story, but I had a relatively good experience during my PPL - and I stuck with the school for about a year or so after my PPL to hire the planes. For various reasons, I then moved down to Prestwick and joined Prestwick Flying Club - my flying experience just quite litterally took off from then - I LOVED it!!
The instructors are real pilots that do instructing for fun. My skills got better and my overall enjoyment got better - much more of a social side to it.
I'm not sure where you are based - Prestwick was obviously a bit more of a joint that Cumbernauld - but well WELL worth it.
I'll also tell you one wee story - once at Prestwick I soon bought a share in an aircraft that was kept down there. One sunny afternoon, I decided to take it for a flight up to Inverness. I called my girlfriend to see if she fancied coming along, which she did - and arranged to pick her up at Cumbernauld. I thought great - I'll pop in, get some lunch and say hello to Ted. When I got there, I found out that Ted had actually thrown her out of the cafe, telling her she couldn't wait in there for me - this was dispite me having paid him probably about 10,000GBP over the years. I couldn't believe it - but it sums it all up for me!
It will all work out - please let me know if you need any introductions at Prestwick. Please keep her at it!!
Good luck!
Edit - meant to send this as a PM - oh well!
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Hi Glasgowflyer
Prestwick was recommended to her by a Thomsons captain during our recent holiday in Egypt.She was lucky to chat to him on the flight deck. Having read many positive things on this forum including yours Mairi has chosen Prestwick as her new school.Its only 35 min drive from home here in Bearsden.
She had her first flight in a cessna 150 last weekend and enjoyed it . Her instructor Willie (forget his surname ) was lovely and made her feel very much at ease.I have a feeling he will take her under his wing.
I can see her enthusiasm returning especially since she got her exam results which were brilliant despite the last year being very sad and difficult for her and her sister.
It really is great to hear from you guys. I appreciate it and tell Mairi all about it . She is keen to chat to experienced pilotsabout their experiences in training via email if anyone is interested .
Prestwick was recommended to her by a Thomsons captain during our recent holiday in Egypt.She was lucky to chat to him on the flight deck. Having read many positive things on this forum including yours Mairi has chosen Prestwick as her new school.Its only 35 min drive from home here in Bearsden.
She had her first flight in a cessna 150 last weekend and enjoyed it . Her instructor Willie (forget his surname ) was lovely and made her feel very much at ease.I have a feeling he will take her under his wing.
I can see her enthusiasm returning especially since she got her exam results which were brilliant despite the last year being very sad and difficult for her and her sister.
It really is great to hear from you guys. I appreciate it and tell Mairi all about it . She is keen to chat to experienced pilotsabout their experiences in training via email if anyone is interested .
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You must distinguish between Prestwick Flying Club and Prestwick Flight Centre. If the Thomson's captain is the one I'm thinking of, he'll have mentioned the Club as he's a member there. You've gone to the Flight Centre (the Club don't have 150s). Doesn't matter, your daughter will be well-cared for.
I'm surprised anyone let alone a little schoolgirl can fit into a 150 with Willie (no offence Willie)
I'm surprised anyone let alone a little schoolgirl can fit into a 150 with Willie (no offence Willie)
.