Another school bust
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Another school bust
The school I have been training with for a PPL has just gone bust.
How can I ensure that my training records don't end up in a skip?
Lots of schools go bust so someone must have good experience of this situation and can offer advice.
Due to all the caveats on this forum I never paid in advance even after being offered substantial discounts, many thanks chaps.!
atceng (sometime)
How can I ensure that my training records don't end up in a skip?
Lots of schools go bust so someone must have good experience of this situation and can offer advice.
Due to all the caveats on this forum I never paid in advance even after being offered substantial discounts, many thanks chaps.!
atceng (sometime)
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Your not allowed to give them directly to the student. In theory some form of examinor is meant to take charge of them and then either pass them to the CAA or directly to the new schools.
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Records
Thank you for your help.I'll pursue all these suggestions!!
atceng
Gone skating as its nearest thing to flying.
atceng
Gone skating as its nearest thing to flying.
Last edited by atceng; 19th Jun 2011 at 09:48. Reason: Gone out.
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Which school has gone bust?
ps don't worry about it. There is usually alot of stress when it first happens but things usually sort themselves out after a few weeks. Also if you contact the reciever and make sure they know where they are. You get the odd one that thinks they are an asset of the school but don't worry about it the CAA will re-educate them.
ps don't worry about it. There is usually alot of stress when it first happens but things usually sort themselves out after a few weeks. Also if you contact the reciever and make sure they know where they are. You get the odd one that thinks they are an asset of the school but don't worry about it the CAA will re-educate them.
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I fly with another school based at Cumbernauld and Carlisle, there is no way anything bad will happen to your training records the lady who owned the flying school is not that kind of person and Ted no longer has access to the offices,best think to do is approach both schools at Cumbernauld choose one you think is for you and finish your training with them.
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Due to all the caveats on this forum I never paid in advance even after being offered substantial discounts, many thanks chaps.!
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The school that has gone bust is believed to be the Cumbernauld Flight Centre. It is certainly not Leading Edge who will be quite happy to hear from any students and members affected who wish to continue training etc.
As far as student records go they have to be given to the CAA who will then pass onto the school that a student transfers to.
As far as student records go they have to be given to the CAA who will then pass onto the school that a student transfers to.
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Cumbernauld Flight Centre is no more
You believe correct. And to be honest, it can't have come sooner. The owner is possibly the most unpopular man in Scottish aviation and you will be hard pressed to find someone with a good word to say about him.
His track record can be seen on Companies House. His outfit has been called Cumbernauld Flight Centre, Cumbernauld Flying Centre, Cumbernauld Flying School and Cumbernauld Flight School. It stinks of someone running away from the financial problems of an organisation.
One has to feel for the students who are owed thousands. It's not nice.
So there are now two schools at Cumbernauld: Border Air Training and Leading Edge. Both will no doubt be assisting students yet to complete their flight training.
His track record can be seen on Companies House. His outfit has been called Cumbernauld Flight Centre, Cumbernauld Flying Centre, Cumbernauld Flying School and Cumbernauld Flight School. It stinks of someone running away from the financial problems of an organisation.
One has to feel for the students who are owed thousands. It's not nice.
So there are now two schools at Cumbernauld: Border Air Training and Leading Edge. Both will no doubt be assisting students yet to complete their flight training.
Last edited by PD210; 19th Jun 2011 at 19:34.
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I'm ex-student of the above organisation (pick your name), and switched to another provider recently (what a fortunate decision!), but as logbook entries were not signed by the instructor at Cumbernauld, a verification stamp is now required - will it still be possible to get this stamp, or will I have to pursue other means?
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If that's his track record then he should be disqualified from being a director ASAP. It could prevent many more students ending up in the same position 
P.S. I remember flying over Cumbernauld (Dundee to Carlisle via Prestwick) and asked for any conflicting traffic information etc....I never got a response, so I quickly changed to Glasgow radar! and thought miserable ba***rd ...could this guy be the same person!!!
P.S. I remember flying over Cumbernauld (Dundee to Carlisle via Prestwick) and asked for any conflicting traffic information etc....I never got a response, so I quickly changed to Glasgow radar! and thought miserable ba***rd ...could this guy be the same person!!!
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^^
No, Ted never manned the radio as far as I'm aware - doubt he was qualified to.
Cumbernauld serves many other organisations so the radio operators aren't tied to a particular training provider AFAIK.
No, Ted never manned the radio as far as I'm aware - doubt he was qualified to.
Cumbernauld serves many other organisations so the radio operators aren't tied to a particular training provider AFAIK.
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Leading Edge view
Groundhog Day?
The school in question was closed over the weekend but I am not aware of any 'official' position.
We have had several students in talking to us and we have advised them that the position will probably be clarified early in the week.
We have been through this before at Cumbernauld and Inverness.... so we have good experience in dealing with pilots looking to complete their training or progress with their flying.
My personal advise (only my viewpoint) would be for anyone affected to wait for a couple of days for clarification; the airport owner also has experience of this and will be keen to protect the Cumbernauld customers. If a student decides to make a move away from the school in question (it may turn out to be their only choice) then act quickly to request their records be transferred to another school. REMEMBER, they can always move to another school at any point so 'jumping' is not neccessarily a 'questionable' choice.
I run Leading Edge and therefore have our interest a heart! But I do think the advise above in reasonable.
Allan
The school in question was closed over the weekend but I am not aware of any 'official' position.
We have had several students in talking to us and we have advised them that the position will probably be clarified early in the week.
We have been through this before at Cumbernauld and Inverness.... so we have good experience in dealing with pilots looking to complete their training or progress with their flying.
My personal advise (only my viewpoint) would be for anyone affected to wait for a couple of days for clarification; the airport owner also has experience of this and will be keen to protect the Cumbernauld customers. If a student decides to make a move away from the school in question (it may turn out to be their only choice) then act quickly to request their records be transferred to another school. REMEMBER, they can always move to another school at any point so 'jumping' is not neccessarily a 'questionable' choice.
I run Leading Edge and therefore have our interest a heart! But I do think the advise above in reasonable.
Allan
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XL319; The tower is not always manned at EGPG (A/G radio)
If you're in that situation again just make a blind call then
go back to Glasgow radar.
Allan; I think you should try and grab a couple of Katanas
Students like them (alot) and they're quite economical.
Now it's my understanding that student records, to some
extent actually belong to the student and they are just
kept at the flight training organisation for convenience,
But don't quote me, cause itellbiglies.
Happy flying folks
If you're in that situation again just make a blind call then
go back to Glasgow radar.
Allan; I think you should try and grab a couple of Katanas
Students like them (alot) and they're quite economical.
Now it's my understanding that student records, to some
extent actually belong to the student and they are just
kept at the flight training organisation for convenience,
But don't quote me, cause itellbiglies.
Happy flying folks
Last edited by Itellbiglies; 19th Jun 2011 at 23:17.
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It's always sad to see any school go bust in spite of how they got there.
That said to all the students that are concerned, don't be, the normal course is that the CAA take charge of the records via an examiner or other competent person and you then email the CAA to get the records transferred to whatever school or club you end up in.
It's fairly straightforward and can take a wee while but there's no reason why you cannot continue to train from the point you left off before they get your records on the basis of both your log book and your actual skill level. I'm 100% sure that this will be the case at both BAT and LE knowing people that work at both places and they are good folk that are interested in helping people get their ticket.
That said to all the students that are concerned, don't be, the normal course is that the CAA take charge of the records via an examiner or other competent person and you then email the CAA to get the records transferred to whatever school or club you end up in.
It's fairly straightforward and can take a wee while but there's no reason why you cannot continue to train from the point you left off before they get your records on the basis of both your log book and your actual skill level. I'm 100% sure that this will be the case at both BAT and LE knowing people that work at both places and they are good folk that are interested in helping people get their ticket.
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While I agree that it unfortunate that this club has gone bust I think it unlikely that the directors will be banned from holding directorships.
One only has to look at the antics of the directors of XL airways who within weeks of going bust were replacing it with Viking airlines, within 18 months that went bust, they are now operating at TorAir.
Lots of people have lost a lot of money each time these people bust a company and they just keep on doing it so it is unlikely the directors of a small company that owes a few £s will be banned when companies house takes no acton when people go bust owing £M's.
One only has to look at the antics of the directors of XL airways who within weeks of going bust were replacing it with Viking airlines, within 18 months that went bust, they are now operating at TorAir.
Lots of people have lost a lot of money each time these people bust a company and they just keep on doing it so it is unlikely the directors of a small company that owes a few £s will be banned when companies house takes no acton when people go bust owing £M's.
Last edited by A and C; 20th Jun 2011 at 11:15.
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I agree with A&C; for a Director to get disqualified he has to do a major fraud and he has to do it to somebody who is big enough and ugly enough and rich enough and principled enough to want to push it through.
In my 33 years in business I have seen a few things but never saw a Director banned. The standard way to do a ripoff and get away with it is to make sure that a) you don't owe money to HMRC (who will otherwise make you personally bankrupt) and b) you don't owe more than a few k to any trade creditor.
I believe that if a flying school goes bust and you paid with a credit card, you can get your money back from the CC company. However their staff is trained to thwart any such claimback (a widespread activity) so this may take some effort.
In my 33 years in business I have seen a few things but never saw a Director banned. The standard way to do a ripoff and get away with it is to make sure that a) you don't owe money to HMRC (who will otherwise make you personally bankrupt) and b) you don't owe more than a few k to any trade creditor.
I believe that if a flying school goes bust and you paid with a credit card, you can get your money back from the CC company. However their staff is trained to thwart any such claimback (a widespread activity) so this may take some effort.
So long as the hours can be verified, I'd not worry too much about training records anyhow - any new school is going to make their own mind up about you, and ultimately you get a licence on the basis of enough flying hours, and a satisfactory skill test.
G
G
