Suggestions for a day or two in Florida

[SunnyDayInWiltshire]

I've just found out I'll be making a short business trip to Miami (technical work rather than drug running you'll be glad to hear). I have the option to go out a day or two early, and thought it might be an ideal opportunity to have a short taster of what GA in Florida has to offer.

The trip is 6 weeks away. I'm a fairly new PPL, ~80 hours, mostly PA28, and really just looking to understand the differences in procedures and the benefits of the way GA operates there. It would also help me determine what a future flying holiday there might entail.

I wasn't expecting to try and convert my UK licence into an FAA one - I've heard this can be done quicker than the 3 month max time ( but no guarantees), so would expect to be flying with an instructor.

Although my business trip is to Miami, I could be based in Orlando for the extra day(s).

Can anyone advise on where I should look to hire from, what I should aim to include in the flights and any other tips? I'm assuming that I can just do this with the standard Visa waiver - I'm not going to be logging time as PIC or gaining any specific training qualification or rating. I could argue it's all sightseeing, but must be very clear that I can't break the rules.

I've been to Florida 3 times before (holiday and business), and to the US on many business trips, but never had any GA activities there.

Any insights appreciated

SD

[Whopity]

Ryan Aviation at Flagler for Seaplanes and Southeast Aerobatics at St Augustine

[BackPacker]

I'm not going to be logging time as PIC or gaining any specific training qualification or rating. I could argue it's all sightseeing, but must be very clear that I can't break the rules.

So you don't need a visa or TSA approval. Good.

Don't know about Miami (I guess I would do a sightseeing tour along the Keys and maybe the Everglades) but east of Orlando there's Kennedy Space Center with one of the biggest runways in the world and a few other things that are highly interestesting.

I don't know the specific procedures to get to overfly (and maybe do a few T&Gs) there, but any instructor out there should know.

West of Orlando is Kissimmee, which is home base of Orlando Flight Training, one of the three or four JAA schools in Florida. They operate PA28s, C152s and C172s. Useful if you want to pick up your night rating while over there, for instance. But realistically, if all you want is a bit of sightseeing with an instructor as PIC, you'll find that there are multiple flight schools on virtually every airfield, and any of these would do just fine.

Edited: Just saw Whopities suggestion about seaplanes. I seem to remember some of those at Winter Haven, just a few miles West of Kissimmee too. And there is (was?) a place at Kissimmee that operates P51 Mustangs.

[S-Works]

Pelican Aviaion at North Perry. It's about 40 minutes drive from Miami. Owned and run by a great English couple.

[Heliport]

Everglades, Florida Keys and Key West ...... Info and pics

[Sir George Cayley]

**** that. Get your ass down to Mangos Tropical Bar on South Beach Miami.
After a few Caipirinha you'll be flying.

Sir George Cayley

[Jodelman]

Just saw Whopities suggestion about seaplanes. I seem to remember some of those at Winter Haven, just a few miles West of Kissimmee too.

Winter Haven is home to Jack Brown's Seaplane base. Very nice people. I had a half hour with an instructor last week and did six landings for the very reasonable sum of $82.50.

[BackPacker]

Winter Haven is home to Jack Brown's Seaplane base.

1200 USD, 2 days for an FAA seaplane rating. No TSA required and no M-1 visa either if it's only incidental to your visit. I know what I would do...

In fact, my boss wants me to go to Orlando for a conference in the fall. I might just add on two days vacation...

[XLC]

Hi Backpacker,

- do you mean that for a rating you do not need a TSA nor a M-1 ? I am surprised by that.
- Furthermore, can the FAA instructor give you the seaplane rating on your JAR? Am a bit more surprised

[AdamFrisch]

It doesn't need TSA, but if I'm correct it assumes you have a FAA license to base that off. I think some people have done seaplane ratings that they've later managed to endorse through CAA and to their JAA and then it's initial training and not an add on, so you would need TSA.

I could be wrong, but this is how I've come to understand it.

[BackPacker]

- do you mean that for a rating you do not need a TSA nor a M-1 ? I am surprised by that.

TSA approval is required for:
- An initial airmens rating (aka your initial PPL or other initial license)
- A multi-engine rating
- An instrument rating
- A type rating for aircraft over a certain number of pounds (17.000 or so, from memory)

Taildragger, seaplane and such are exempted. The TSA is only interested in people coming to the US to significantly enhance their ability to fly a large airliner into a building. (Sounds cruel but that's almost the exact wording in the various TSA bills etc.)

An M1 visa is required if the primary reason for your visit to the US is getting trained for something. But since your primary reason is work-related and the flight training is only incidental to that, you need a visa for whatever work-related thing you're doing. Or, if the work-related thing qualifies, and you are otherwise qualified, you can get in under the Visa Waiver Program. (But don't forget ESTA in that case.)

However, as Adam points out, you need an FAA license to put the seaplane rating on. If its a 61.95 "piggyback" FAA PPL then you can simply pick that up (after a little paperwork exercise between you, the FAA and the CAA) at the nearest FSDO but you need to remember that you're building a house of cards: Your seaplane rating is based on your FAA PPL, which is based on your CAA PPL and your medical. If any of these crumble (for instance because the number of your CAA license changes) the house of cards comes tumbling down. Is that important? If you're just doing the seaplane rating as a thrill activity, with no serious intention to use it ever after, it's probably not. But you wouldn't want to get an instrument rating and put it on such a piggyback certificate.

The alternative is to get a standalone FAA PPL. But this is going to require a little more training than just the BFR for the 61.95 piggyback and it'll be harder to argue that you still don't need an M1 visa. Also, we've had a heated debate on here a while ago about whether you need TSA clearance to do a standalone FAA PPL when you are already the holder of another ICAO PPL. I think you don't, and others think you do, and the discussion ended inconclusively - in the end nobody involved went as far as getting the TSA interpretation in writing. Look up the discussion if you want to, and see who you agree with. This is not the place to repeat it.

- Furthermore, can the FAA instructor give you the seaplane rating on your JAR? Am a bit more surprised

No, he can not. He can only give you the FAA seaplane rating on your FAA PPL (piggyback or standalone).

Also I think the requirements of the JAA seaplane rating and FAA seaplane rating are different enough that the CAA will not give you your JAA seaplane rating solely based on your FAA seaplane rating. I would assume that the training would be accepted, but not the various exams, so you would have to do some further exams over here. But I haven't dived deep enough into the regulations to be sure.

[S-Works]

It doesn't need TSA, but if I'm correct it assumes you have a FAA license to base that off. I think some people have done seaplane ratings that they've later managed to endorse through CAA and to their JAA and then it's initial training and not an add on, so you would need TSA.

I could be wrong, but this is how I've come to understand it.

You are quite right. I did my FAA Commercial Seaplane at Jack Browns and then added it to my JAA CPL by doing initially the private seaplane exam at Ontrack and then the Commercial exams at Gatwick. All very painless and easy to do. Keeping it current is done by experience by doing the required 12 take off and landings on water. Easily done if you visit Jack Browns every couple of years.

[Local Variation]

If you're in Orlando, get yourself down to OFT and ask them to take you to Spruce Creek.

[corpus callosum]

If in Miami

Take a trip down to Fort Lauderdale Executive Airport and go to Banyan's a Huge pilot shop with a GII cockpit with Microsoft Flight X on which is cool.

Or

Go to a Flight School and ask to Fly down South Beach one mile off the coast at or below 1000 feet you can get some cool pictures from that. A trip down to the Keys is cool too.

Or

(If they still let you do it) have a flying lesson out of kissimmee or Orlando Executive and ask to do a touch and go at Orlando International.

Corpus

[SunnyDayInWiltshire]

Better than I hoped

Thanks for all the suggestions and recommendations, both on the board and via PM. Sounds like this could be quite an exciting business trip!

I really hadn't thought/considered seaplanes - will seriously consider that. The general sightseeing trip down towards the Keys also sounds fabulous.

I'd already written off recording anything formal in the logbook (I won't be PIC or under a training course), and I'm not sure that a Seaplane rating would really be that much use where I normally fly, so will remain in blissful ignorance of what the procedures are for getting/converting/retaining an FAA PPL on this occasion.

....and as for Caipirinhas... sorry but they're just not the same outside Brazil.

SD

PS: For once, my board name is accurate! It is indeed Sunny today and I am going flying - yippee.

[stevelup]

You might as well get your 61.75 certificate. It's only going to cost you £46 (the fee to the UK CAA).

Everyone says it takes months to arrange but I got my fax back from Oklahoma just three days after faxing the request in.

You can include the BFR as part of whatever activity you choose to do whilst out there...

Grab a copy of this before you go.

[youngskywalker]

Get a thirty minute lesson doing aerobatics in a WW2 Texan at Kissimmee. Not that expensive really. Good one for the logbook and they offer you a dvd filmed from the cockpit and wing cams if you want. They also have a P51 and a B25 Mitchell (occasionally) if your wallet can take the hit!

[dont overfil]

The P51 is at Stallion 51 Corp or just google Crazy Horse.
That was about £1800 per hour 8 years ago Too rich for me.
The Texan/snj was about £250 for 40 minutes last year at Warbird adventures. Unfortunately they don't let you do the takeoff and landing anymore.
They are both on the west side of the airfield at Kissimmee off Hoagland Boulevard.
D.O.

[rufus.t.firefly]

You could give Orlando Gateway Aviation a call at Kissimmee (great small friendly operation) , you can have a "Discovery Flight" or two with them in the Piper Sport ( Sport Cruiser ) with an instructor onboard - fly as much as you want during the flying hour(s) . I did it last week - highly recommended - but didn't log the time in my log book in case it mucked up or contradicted my ongoing training in the UK

Great fun and sporty

[S-Works]

A digression.... But if you were flying with an Instructor as PUT then it can go in your logbook. It might not count towards any training in the UK specifically (although it might) but it is loggable time and will not muck anything up.......