Cessna Down near Ingleborough
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pyroclastic, in a manly, up front way wrote:
Always nice to see anonymous individuals posting comments such as these.
Very brave
Hmmm! Should have got an aircraft with better equipment!!!
Wonder if the guilt is twinging yet?
What goes around comes around!
Its easy coming out with cocky comments from a nice cozy ATC environment !!!!
Wonder if the guilt is twinging yet?
What goes around comes around!
Its easy coming out with cocky comments from a nice cozy ATC environment !!!!
Very brave
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Keepitup, thank you. Unfortunately it was your link which was the problem but I'm sure you weren't aware of the problem when you posted it.
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For anyone who may wonder what attempts would be maade to rescue them in such an event may I suggest you have a look at the thread on Flyer - particularly Page 9.
The rescue involved Blackpool ATC, D&D, ARCC, a RAF Seaking, Mountain Rescue, Cave Rescue, SARDA and the local Police and Ambulance services. It was a SARDA dog, Glen and his owner who found them. We are so fortunate to live and fly in this country.
The rescue involved Blackpool ATC, D&D, ARCC, a RAF Seaking, Mountain Rescue, Cave Rescue, SARDA and the local Police and Ambulance services. It was a SARDA dog, Glen and his owner who found them. We are so fortunate to live and fly in this country.
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Okavango, I would be very surprised to see anything before about a year after the incident there certainly isn't anything yet.
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Some AAIB reports are of good quality but some like this one have been done by some right corpses.
They miss the elephant in the room whuch is that the PIC (a CAA instructor) was basically doing this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Dust_(aircraft)
but about 60 years too late; in the wrong century in fact.
Not using a GPS (out of the view of the student if appropriate) is what led to this.
Visual navigation at night is very difficult, not least because visual cues like cities can look very different in shape.
When i was doing my NQ, with a highly experienced ex ATP, we got thoroughly lost too. It worked out ok in the end, partly because the airport was on the coast, with no hills around.
I guess the CAA was concerned about a court case (a personal injury lawsuit by the student) showing up what an antiquated training system we have, so the report was written in the RAF navigator style to nip that in the bud.
They miss the elephant in the room whuch is that the PIC (a CAA instructor) was basically doing this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Dust_(aircraft)
but about 60 years too late; in the wrong century in fact.
Not using a GPS (out of the view of the student if appropriate) is what led to this.
Visual navigation at night is very difficult, not least because visual cues like cities can look very different in shape.
When i was doing my NQ, with a highly experienced ex ATP, we got thoroughly lost too. It worked out ok in the end, partly because the airport was on the coast, with no hills around.
I guess the CAA was concerned about a court case (a personal injury lawsuit by the student) showing up what an antiquated training system we have, so the report was written in the RAF navigator style to nip that in the bud.
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Perhaps, but I think a big factor here is that the instructor held his hands up right from the beginning and admitted he screwed up big time. There was no attempt by him to obfuscate or try to sidestep the blame.
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Not using a GPS (out of the view of the student if appropriate) is what led to this.
Sloppy, very sloppy. I'm not sure that pilots with this level of arousal would have managed to even plot an accurate route on a GPS, never mind putting the magenta diamond above the planned track.
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Could be multiple explanations.
Every training plane I ever flew in had a crappy DI, which would drift say 10 degrees in 10 minutes, and had to be continually re-set from the liquid compass. If one forgot to do that... ?
They did some VOR position fixing, which was obviously inadequate, for some reason. Crap VOR receiver? I have flown with some fine specimens, too.
GPS is not "necessary" (C. Columbus sailed to the USA without it, Great Britain beat Germany without it TWICE, etc, etc, etc, etc) but is by far the best tool for the job, and should have been used, because the whole concept of "MSA" hangs totally on an accurate position, and since you have to descend sometime, eventually...
Another angle is that the instructor carries a big responsibility: the student's life.
And another angle is that if you get lost, you might bust airspace, and as an instructor you will end up looking less than great in the proverbial interview "without tea and biscuits". In fact the only way to end up looking even worse would be to do all this on a training flight in an N-reg
(which is when I receive any training in my plane, I make sure the instructor has a GPS running at all times even if I can't see it).
Every training plane I ever flew in had a crappy DI, which would drift say 10 degrees in 10 minutes, and had to be continually re-set from the liquid compass. If one forgot to do that... ?
They did some VOR position fixing, which was obviously inadequate, for some reason. Crap VOR receiver? I have flown with some fine specimens, too.
GPS is not "necessary" (C. Columbus sailed to the USA without it, Great Britain beat Germany without it TWICE, etc, etc, etc, etc) but is by far the best tool for the job, and should have been used, because the whole concept of "MSA" hangs totally on an accurate position, and since you have to descend sometime, eventually...
Another angle is that the instructor carries a big responsibility: the student's life.
And another angle is that if you get lost, you might bust airspace, and as an instructor you will end up looking less than great in the proverbial interview "without tea and biscuits". In fact the only way to end up looking even worse would be to do all this on a training flight in an N-reg
(which is when I receive any training in my plane, I make sure the instructor has a GPS running at all times even if I can't see it).
