PPL Flight over Water

[Morrisman1]

Do the ships monitor 121.5MHz? I assume they monitor the maritime radio frequencies but i think they would be MF/HF

[SkyCamMK]

121.5

Chan 16 will be used for DF by lifeboats etc but UHF is now where the marine distress signals will be broadcast and Channel 16 is not required to be monitored. Perhaps our maritime friends will fill in the detail?

Mariner9 you may well be correct about turning options but I don't expect this manoeuvre in the traffic lanes of the English Channel that are very closely monitored very busy and difficult enough to sail as a yacht and as I have found on many occasions whilst avoiding tankers in daylight due to congestion or at least busy traffic flow.

Edit PM from Mariner9 says I am wrong about this but I am basing my statement on my own recent experience sailing in English Channel between Southampton and the Channel Islands.

[FlyingKiwi_73]

I dont mean to be pedantic FlyingKiwi but you are all but correct. Life jacket worn (and life rafts carried) if exceeding 10Nm beyond gliding distance from shore if its a commercial operation. Private ops you dont have to wear a life jacket at all but it must be carried (one for each POB) if you are beyond 50Nm from shore. Private ops/single engine beyond 100Nm require liferafts (or beyond 200Nm if multi engine)

ahh cheers morrisman i must have got my private ops mixed with our Part 135 chaps, was i rembering the thing about the PLB correctly?

I'd still be wearing the life jacket!

[BackPacker]

Do the ships monitor 121.5MHz?

No. They don't even have the ability to monitor that frequency, unless it's a vessel that may be involved in SAR operations. (For the same reason that aircraft that may be involved in SAR operations may be equipped with radios that cover the maritime band.)

But maritime VHF frequencies are a different band from aeronautical VHF frequencies. In fact, there isn't even a single frequency that overlaps (which would be very handy sometimes).

The maritime equivalent to 121.5 is "channel 16" and just like 121.5, there are rules governing its use, and when and where it needs to be monitored.

Channel 16 is actually 156.8 MHz (but I had to look that up).

[PilotUnknown]

Back when I was working towards my PPL all training was done over the channel! The standard was to always wear life jackets. There was always a life raft in the back!

[BullHughes]

Ive done the Irish Sea crossing from Haverfordwest to Waterford on a few occasions, but personally only if I have a life raft in the back. Odds on you'll have no dramas, but have a careful think about procedures to follow if the worst happens.

For example, following an engine failure you might want to glide for best endurance to give maximum time airborne. Give as early a Mayday call as possible while you still have maximum comms range. Look for any shipping and try to pass ahead and slightly to one side of them. Ditch into wind and along the swell as slowly as possible but avoid stalling in at all costs etc...etc...

During the descent remove your footwear and wedge shoes in the doors. To ditch successfully and then find you cant escape because the doors have deformed and jammed shut would be particularly irritating

Make sure you decide who is going to grab the life raft and make sure they know exactly how to get it out through the door and inflated. You dont want a loose strap catching on a seat while the cabin fills with water.

Armed with this type of knowledge and preparation, you've nothing to worry about. Engines very rarely fail, and even if they do, they usually give some sort of warning of the impending failure.

When non-pilots ask me what happens if the turny thing on the front stops spinning I explain to them about gliding, forced landings etc
I then ask them what they would do if they were speeding along the M25 in heavy traffic and their front wheel falls off.

[Hodja]

A lot of good advice from BullHughes.

Also worth repeating the fact, that fuel mismanagement is the major culprit behind ditchings. Engine or structural failure is apparently less frequent.

In other words:

1. Carry a life raft & PLB (A/C ELT won't work underwater)
2. Only fly in good weather (duh)
3. Don't run out of fuel

...and your chances of making an ocean crossing should be perfectly acceptable.

I recently did a 3 hr open ocean crossing in a Diamond DA40 (Kuching to Singapore), and felt comfortable with our preparations.

Ocean crossings in the North Atlantic in the winter is a totally different ballgame of course, due to the spectre of hypothermia.

I'd add 3 additional points:

- Ditch without flaps extended. I read somewhere that the airplane is more prone to submerge (fly "into" the water) with flaps extended.

- Try to maintain control of both wings & keep them level even after the first bounce on the water, in order to avoid dangerous cartwheeling or submerging a wing.

- Start your ocean crossing early in the day. In the event of ditching it's much harder for SAR to spot you in the ocean at night. (don't count on help being there for at least a couple of hours)

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I have actually tried the ditching option. I hope I never try again it sucked a lot. The cold was the worst bit, and the struggle to get into the raft (North Sea August) nearly cost lives due to the exhaustion it caused, and that was with a crew and passengers who trained annually for the event and were fully kitted for it. All the plans went straight to rats*** in the struggle to get out of the aircraft and the ensuing fight with the dinghys.

I still fly over water a lot, but I NEVER expect to get the dinghy out if it is ever needed. You will be colder than you can imagine, but the jacket gives you initial survival tool to cope with the first shock and then the fight to survive. I was in the water for 22 minutes, in an immersion suit and all of us had some symptoms of hypothermia when we were fished out.

Also no matter how good a traveller you are expect seriously debilitating seasickness. The motion of the dinghy is very strange.

I described it in this thread:

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...-liferaft.html

[Hodja]

Some very sobering thoughts indeed.

Indeed I don't think an open sea ditching can ever be consider a "regular" event.

Worst thought for me would be sustaining any serious physical injury during the ditching & touch-down phase; that'd really screw things up in the recovery phase...

Life is full of risks. We assess and accept the risks and try to limit them as much as possible, while preparing to deal with the worst. I think that's the best we can do.

[Maoraigh1]

During the descent remove your footwear and wedge shoes in the doors.

I can see the sense in jamming something in the doors, but not removing footwear. You'll be increasing your heat loss considerably. Wearing a lifejacket, they won't weight you down.

[BullHughes]

Would no shoes really result in that much body heat loss?

I find swimming with trainers/shoes on more difficult than without, but I suppose it'd be the least of your worries.

What else could you realistically wedge in the doors that would be to hand at that time?

[BackPacker]

What else could you realistically wedge in the doors that would be to hand at that time?

Kneeboard.

With a bit of forethought, you might even be able to use the velcro straps to keep it in place.

Also, I wouldn't hesitate to use the aircrafts logbook, POH or even my personal logbook if that was within easy reach. Heck, you could even use a headset, clamped around the sill, to keep the door open.

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Knowing the rocky NZ coast, i'd keep my footwear on, you certainly would loose heat fast in your socks!

I have seen (several times) an expert Helicopter Ag pilot come streaming in for a landing on the trolley whilst propping a door open with his elbow... nothing but respect and awe for those guys.

I use the techlog, bit easier.

[W.D. Charlwood]

Save up for a Twin Rating!