Started PPL training (!)
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Started PPL training (!)
Well, after years and years of thinking about it, I finally jumped off the diving board, I started PPL training a couple weeks ago. I fly out of my local 3500 foot runway airport at 440 feet MSL elevation. It's a solid little airport with all the services one would need. I selected a 1982 vintage Cessna 152 (II) to keep the costs somewhat under control. It's an old aircraft with basic instrumentation...did I mention it's old? She has a very steady fuel leak (fuel pouts from the left tank vent) and the interior has not been maintained whatsoever. The attitude indicator is maybe 8 degrees out of wack. Big cracks on the plastic instrument panel bezels. Speaking of cracks, there are numerous drill-stops on the fuselage, control surfaces, and wings. I'd say this makes it a perfect right-of-passage training aircraft! The engine believe it or not purrs like a kitten and produces good power.
I have completed only (3) flight lessons so far but have been hitting my Cessna cloud-based ground training hard, always keeping way ahead of the actual flights.
So far, the two things that intimidate me the most are VFR navigation and landings. My instructor can just look out the window and know exactly where we are, but I just don't know where I am yet. He will often ask me if I see this road, that town, or that water tower and more often than not I don't know what or where he is referring to. He says that as I build time, I will get to know the landscape. When you guys trained, did VFR scare you at first? I am already having nightmares about getting lost and losing everybody's respect by having to admit to ATC that I need vectors...this is my worst nightmare! I was told that it happened to one of the other students recently and all respect for her was immediately destroyed when they found out. Any tips on how to get up to speed on landmark navigation quickly! I do NOT want to get lost!
As far as landings go, I am NOT happy with my 5 landings so far. In each case, I was unable to grease it. Instead, I felt a light thump and heard a chirp as the mains touched down. I just haven't gotten the hang of flaring just at the right time at just the right amount. I think I am simply not flaring enough...not pulling back hard enough on the yoke. I can't wait until I grease my first landing...I don't want to feel any thump whatsoever...I want those mains kissing the runway. So far in training we haven't even really gotten to landings yet, but obviously at the end of each flight or trip to another airport I have to land, and the instructor has been letting me do pretty much all the work and hasn't really had to jump in and correct.
I feel like I am really doing poorly at both VFR and landings, and those two things are extremely important obviously. The other aspects of flying are not really challenging at all, at least not yet. I'm sure I will soon run into other areas that I have trouble with.
Hoping to get some pointers on VFR and those landing flares. I don't ever want to feel that thump again (unless I'm shooting a short-field approach, that's different). With a 3500 foot runway I have plenty of asphalt to come in real gentle.
Thanks for any replies guys!
I have completed only (3) flight lessons so far but have been hitting my Cessna cloud-based ground training hard, always keeping way ahead of the actual flights.
So far, the two things that intimidate me the most are VFR navigation and landings. My instructor can just look out the window and know exactly where we are, but I just don't know where I am yet. He will often ask me if I see this road, that town, or that water tower and more often than not I don't know what or where he is referring to. He says that as I build time, I will get to know the landscape. When you guys trained, did VFR scare you at first? I am already having nightmares about getting lost and losing everybody's respect by having to admit to ATC that I need vectors...this is my worst nightmare! I was told that it happened to one of the other students recently and all respect for her was immediately destroyed when they found out. Any tips on how to get up to speed on landmark navigation quickly! I do NOT want to get lost!
As far as landings go, I am NOT happy with my 5 landings so far. In each case, I was unable to grease it. Instead, I felt a light thump and heard a chirp as the mains touched down. I just haven't gotten the hang of flaring just at the right time at just the right amount. I think I am simply not flaring enough...not pulling back hard enough on the yoke. I can't wait until I grease my first landing...I don't want to feel any thump whatsoever...I want those mains kissing the runway. So far in training we haven't even really gotten to landings yet, but obviously at the end of each flight or trip to another airport I have to land, and the instructor has been letting me do pretty much all the work and hasn't really had to jump in and correct.
I feel like I am really doing poorly at both VFR and landings, and those two things are extremely important obviously. The other aspects of flying are not really challenging at all, at least not yet. I'm sure I will soon run into other areas that I have trouble with.
Hoping to get some pointers on VFR and those landing flares. I don't ever want to feel that thump again (unless I'm shooting a short-field approach, that's different). With a 3500 foot runway I have plenty of asphalt to come in real gentle.
Thanks for any replies guys!
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I can't work out if you are trolling or just extremely misguided/ naive. The exuberant use of lingo could point to either.
Was I scared of VFR flying? No.
Did it take time to work out how to navigate? Yes. This is why we fly with instructors. To learn.
You don't want to call ATC if you get lost? Why not? The guy you referred to will have needed to do a lot more than just get lost in order to lose respect. If that's not the case, wherever you are flying sounds like a very up itself place, and I'd like to know where so I can avoid it.
If you get lost and need help, then ask for it. It will save someone a lot of money by not having to remove a hull, and potentially the bodies of you and your passengers from a field or whatever you hit after you run out of fuel.
Not greasing your landings? How strange. Whilst I appreciate your apparent desire to improve, you're a long way from greased landings. Just landing the right way up is a good start. Good landings need a 'feel' for the aircraft which you will just not have yet.
I think your attitude is a bit out of place. You seem to want to be perfect immediately. Aviation is not something which can be done that way. It takes time, skill, work, and patience. But I imagine you will work this out quite quickly.
Was I scared of VFR flying? No.
Did it take time to work out how to navigate? Yes. This is why we fly with instructors. To learn.
You don't want to call ATC if you get lost? Why not? The guy you referred to will have needed to do a lot more than just get lost in order to lose respect. If that's not the case, wherever you are flying sounds like a very up itself place, and I'd like to know where so I can avoid it.
If you get lost and need help, then ask for it. It will save someone a lot of money by not having to remove a hull, and potentially the bodies of you and your passengers from a field or whatever you hit after you run out of fuel.
Not greasing your landings? How strange. Whilst I appreciate your apparent desire to improve, you're a long way from greased landings. Just landing the right way up is a good start. Good landings need a 'feel' for the aircraft which you will just not have yet.
I think your attitude is a bit out of place. You seem to want to be perfect immediately. Aviation is not something which can be done that way. It takes time, skill, work, and patience. But I imagine you will work this out quite quickly.
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I think you may be right, I am expecting too much of myself too soon. I think my main fear is developing bad, hard-to-break habits right off the bat. If I can avoid doing that, I'll be better off.
As far as the person getting lost and having to call ATC, I agree that it shouldn't have been THAT big of a deal. She lived through it and that's what matters.
As far as the bizarre comment about using too much lingo...being that this is an aviation forum I sort of assumed that people would know what very basic acronyms like "MSL, ATC, and VFR" meant and that it was part of basic language here. In the future, I can spell out any and all acronyms if my using them in their basic form makes you feel insecure.
As far as the person getting lost and having to call ATC, I agree that it shouldn't have been THAT big of a deal. She lived through it and that's what matters.
As far as the bizarre comment about using too much lingo...being that this is an aviation forum I sort of assumed that people would know what very basic acronyms like "MSL, ATC, and VFR" meant and that it was part of basic language here. In the future, I can spell out any and all acronyms if my using them in their basic form makes you feel insecure.
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You really are getting way ahead of yourself.
If you've only had 3 lessons, you should just about be able to fly straight and level, and possibly climb and descend accurately. Anything else at this stage is a bonus.
Landing the aircraft is actually lesson 13, although you may well be able to land an aircraft before that. When you actually come to lessons 12 and 13, you'll have a few more hours under your belt and will probably fly somewhere in the region of 30 landings for practice (3 hours or so at around 10 landings per hour), so any problems will soon be fixed.
As for navigation, that doesn't even start until lesson 18. By then, you'll have around 20 hours, have flown flights into double figures and generally be more familiar with the local training area.
Raise the concerns you have with your instructor and he will help you to see what is relevant now and what you have to put out of your mind and focus on later.
If you've only had 3 lessons, you should just about be able to fly straight and level, and possibly climb and descend accurately. Anything else at this stage is a bonus.
Landing the aircraft is actually lesson 13, although you may well be able to land an aircraft before that. When you actually come to lessons 12 and 13, you'll have a few more hours under your belt and will probably fly somewhere in the region of 30 landings for practice (3 hours or so at around 10 landings per hour), so any problems will soon be fixed.
As for navigation, that doesn't even start until lesson 18. By then, you'll have around 20 hours, have flown flights into double figures and generally be more familiar with the local training area.
Raise the concerns you have with your instructor and he will help you to see what is relevant now and what you have to put out of your mind and focus on later.
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Don't take too much to heart from the posters on here (unless it's me posting
) If you show even the slightest bit of naivete or have a genuine but perhaps basic question or experience, they immediately will cut you down or accuse you of being a troll. It's just how it is. Everyone here has 100.000 hrs, were born in an airplane and is so jaded that unless you do exactly how they do it, it's wrong. Even if you do exactly like they do it, it's still wrong. Geddit?
That said, you should never be intimidated by ATC. I know this is something that most new pilots fear: talking on the radio. I did as well. When you get accustomed to the lingo and the procedures, it's not hard at all. And they are there to help you. It's never shameful to admit you're lost or in trouble - they will go out of their way to help you 99 times out a 100. I've been lost many times and if you don't have the time or the ability to determine your position using VOR's or landmarks, they will help you out. It's a trap falling into the stay-away-from-controlled-airspace-so-I-don't-have-to-talk-to-ATC way of flying. It will limit you as you progress.
Landings will come, no worries. Greasers are bonuses anyway. Show me a pilot that greases it a 100 times out a 100, and I will show you a liar. But one thing that I know works is to look far ahead in the distance (I "hinge" on the end of the rwy with my eyes normally) and let your peripheral vision do the job for you. If you look to close, you'll overcompensate and your correction will already be too late.
Have fun and don't give up after you've had a bad day flying (they will come) - too many do. We need all the pilots we can get.
) If you show even the slightest bit of naivete or have a genuine but perhaps basic question or experience, they immediately will cut you down or accuse you of being a troll. It's just how it is. Everyone here has 100.000 hrs, were born in an airplane and is so jaded that unless you do exactly how they do it, it's wrong. Even if you do exactly like they do it, it's still wrong. Geddit?That said, you should never be intimidated by ATC. I know this is something that most new pilots fear: talking on the radio. I did as well. When you get accustomed to the lingo and the procedures, it's not hard at all. And they are there to help you. It's never shameful to admit you're lost or in trouble - they will go out of their way to help you 99 times out a 100. I've been lost many times and if you don't have the time or the ability to determine your position using VOR's or landmarks, they will help you out. It's a trap falling into the stay-away-from-controlled-airspace-so-I-don't-have-to-talk-to-ATC way of flying. It will limit you as you progress.
Landings will come, no worries. Greasers are bonuses anyway. Show me a pilot that greases it a 100 times out a 100, and I will show you a liar. But one thing that I know works is to look far ahead in the distance (I "hinge" on the end of the rwy with my eyes normally) and let your peripheral vision do the job for you. If you look to close, you'll overcompensate and your correction will already be too late.
Have fun and don't give up after you've had a bad day flying (they will come) - too many do. We need all the pilots we can get.
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1982 old? That's new, when it comes to C 152's! Are you ever lucky to find such a new one to learn in (doesn't mean it's the best though!) Earlier years had their charms too! Surely you can't think an aircraft "old", when it's only two years older than the Space shuttle you sent NAStornauts into space in!
There are a lot af charms of Cessnas. One of them is that when fuelled to full, and parked at all on a left wing low surface, they are going to vent fuel. There is a vitally important fuel vent flapper valve inside the tank, coneected to that dribbling vent line. It let's in air, so as you use fuel in flight, air can replace it. There are also vented caps, but they are imperfect. To be extra sure, there is a small hole in the flapper of that valve, which air can flow in through, ans gas out. Don't let it worry you....
Stop drills on corregated skins in most areas are not worrysome, I would be very surprised if you saw a stop drill on a fuaselage skin, other than the non-strucutral plastic fairings here and there.
I'm sure you will come to know and appreciate the 152 for its glory. They're simple, but like any aircraft, there's lots to learn about them!
There are a lot af charms of Cessnas. One of them is that when fuelled to full, and parked at all on a left wing low surface, they are going to vent fuel. There is a vitally important fuel vent flapper valve inside the tank, coneected to that dribbling vent line. It let's in air, so as you use fuel in flight, air can replace it. There are also vented caps, but they are imperfect. To be extra sure, there is a small hole in the flapper of that valve, which air can flow in through, ans gas out. Don't let it worry you....
Stop drills on corregated skins in most areas are not worrysome, I would be very surprised if you saw a stop drill on a fuaselage skin, other than the non-strucutral plastic fairings here and there.
I'm sure you will come to know and appreciate the 152 for its glory. They're simple, but like any aircraft, there's lots to learn about them!
I get the impression you've spend a lot of time on some kind of PC-based simulator, and found the reality somewhat different.
This impression was gleaned through your description of VFR.
If this is indeed the case, it's possible you have already managed to start developing a minor bad habit or two, but don't worry, actual flying will break those habits fairly quickly.
As you've discovered, everything looks different from the air. The ability to perceive and register location and orientation of ground objects will gradually improve. Don't worry about this.
Landings are something you'll still occasionally muff after 100 hours. And 500. Don't worry about them at all at this stage.
Try and get the most from each lesson, as it's presented, but above all, have fun.
This impression was gleaned through your description of VFR.
If this is indeed the case, it's possible you have already managed to start developing a minor bad habit or two, but don't worry, actual flying will break those habits fairly quickly.
As you've discovered, everything looks different from the air. The ability to perceive and register location and orientation of ground objects will gradually improve. Don't worry about this.
Landings are something you'll still occasionally muff after 100 hours. And 500. Don't worry about them at all at this stage.
Try and get the most from each lesson, as it's presented, but above all, have fun.
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7 lessons completed and only now able to fly straight and level at different speeds. 8 out of the last 9 lessons cancelled - 7 because of the weather. thoroughly enjoy the flying but the ever cancelled lessons is making me think I should do something else. I must have had 15 lessons cancelled in the last 5 months.
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Tarq,
I don't see how my comments about VFR indicate anything whatsoever about simulation. Yes I have many simulator "hours" but the simulator is nothing like reality...even a child would know this much. I could see a sim being helpful for IFR training...and/or VOR/NDB navigation but a VFR nav aid? No way. Now if I bought x-plane and downloaded actual satellite topography for my local aerodrome then maybe that would help ever so slightly, but the very basic and generic FSX scenery, no way.
I don't understand why various ASSUMPTIONS about me were made in several of the replies. I'm just trying to learn.
I don't see how my comments about VFR indicate anything whatsoever about simulation. Yes I have many simulator "hours" but the simulator is nothing like reality...even a child would know this much. I could see a sim being helpful for IFR training...and/or VOR/NDB navigation but a VFR nav aid? No way. Now if I bought x-plane and downloaded actual satellite topography for my local aerodrome then maybe that would help ever so slightly, but the very basic and generic FSX scenery, no way.
I don't understand why various ASSUMPTIONS about me were made in several of the replies. I'm just trying to learn.
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Chas,
It took me 5 attempts (weather) to get my FIRST lesson off the ground. Really messed up my planning. However, since it's still winter I know I have to be very patient.
Where do you live approximately? Are you in a generally poor WX area? Don't give up because of weather!
It took me 5 attempts (weather) to get my FIRST lesson off the ground. Really messed up my planning. However, since it's still winter I know I have to be very patient.
Where do you live approximately? Are you in a generally poor WX area? Don't give up because of weather!
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I don't ever want to feel that thump again (unless I'm shooting a short-field approach, that's different). With a 3500 foot runway I have plenty of asphalt to come in real gentle.
I am convinced you have to feel the moment when wheels touch the runway.
Miroc
Originally Posted by Plasmech
I don't see how my comments about VFR indicate anything whatsoever about simulation.
I don't understand why various ASSUMPTIONS about me were made in several of the replies
If someone makes what you perceive as an assumption, but it's accurate, then it actually isn't an assumption; it's more of a deduction. Which maybe means that the person might have "been there, done that" himself.
It's not a criticism. It's merely an observation. No need to be sensitive.
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I don't see how a reply like this one contributes to a forum in any way, shape, or form. It's pure arrogance, nothing more. I may be new to this forum but I am not new to forums. This behavior is incredibly common. I believe it to stem mainly from the cowards in life...those who will say anything from the (perceived) safe zone behind their computer screen but in "real life" clam up real quick when face-to-face with another man.
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Plasmech, don't take some of the comments about "assumptions" too serious. Some of us have been on this site for centuries and have experienced all sorts of trolls and other types of posters. It's just a part of cyber life. 
Now, about your flying..... most has already been said. There is NO WAY you will grease your landings after only 3 lessons! And even after flying for years, I still don't grease them every time. There are many factors that go into it, like weather conditions, weight, etc.... it only gets frustrating when you really do manage a greaser, while solo, and NO ONE is around to see it!
You'll get used to recognising things on the ground with time, but at the moment you should be concentrating with flying the plane, not navigating... you still have the instructor on board for that.
And yes, I also hesitated at the beginning to talk to ATC. That, too, will come with time and experience.
There's a reason why 45 hours is set as minimum training time... most people require many more. Be patient, and enjoy!
Now, about your flying..... most has already been said. There is NO WAY you will grease your landings after only 3 lessons! And even after flying for years, I still don't grease them every time. There are many factors that go into it, like weather conditions, weight, etc.... it only gets frustrating when you really do manage a greaser, while solo, and NO ONE is around to see it!
You'll get used to recognising things on the ground with time, but at the moment you should be concentrating with flying the plane, not navigating... you still have the instructor on board for that.
And yes, I also hesitated at the beginning to talk to ATC. That, too, will come with time and experience.
There's a reason why 45 hours is set as minimum training time... most people require many more. Be patient, and enjoy!
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So, you are new to this forum but already happy to tell the people who bothered to respond to you that you can recognise the cowards behind the screen.
I think maybe both in the plane and at the computer, you might want to slow down and listen a bit. It can make a huge difference to the ability to learn. Learning doesn't mean acquiring bad habits - trying to be perfect from the start can do, though.
I think maybe both in the plane and at the computer, you might want to slow down and listen a bit. It can make a huge difference to the ability to learn. Learning doesn't mean acquiring bad habits - trying to be perfect from the start can do, though.
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Sorry but I have absolutely zero tolerance for arrogance. I developed that feeling as a small child and it has never gone away. I don't understand why after I post a serious, legitimate question in an OP that my post gets trolled by a few bad apples and then when I react to said trolling, I get bashed and lectured.
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Plasmech, welcome to the world of PPRuNe! Early on, I asked a simple question and sparked off silly responses, so I think you are right to make a comment. Some people on this forum think they own it and adopt pompous and all-knowing attitudes. Many others however, will try to be helpful.
Relax and enjoy the lessons. It takes a while to get used to flying and you will have good and bad days. The 152 is a good aeroplane to start learning on and you will get to appreciate it. The ones that I learned on were way older than 1982 vintage!
Relax and enjoy the lessons. It takes a while to get used to flying and you will have good and bad days. The 152 is a good aeroplane to start learning on and you will get to appreciate it. The ones that I learned on were way older than 1982 vintage!
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Thanks Dee! I noticed the same thing about forums in general. The people with very high post counts are (usually) constantly doing several things:
1. replying to almost every noobie post by complaining about how their question has already been asked
2. heavily trolling said noobie posts, trying to get them to leave the forum because they are afraid of change
3. calling the noob himself/herself a troll if they sound anywhere near intelligent
4. lashing out at the noob when the noob lashes out at the trouble that THEY instigated in the first place
5. spraying their verbal diarrhea (arrogance and pomposity) all over the place
Regarding #1, if it was against forum rules to post anything that had already been posted, the life expectancy of any forum would be measured in months.
Regarding this topic in general, it's just the nature of forums. It's not just here. Already someone has had one of their replies to my OP deleted.
Thank God for people like you on forums!
1. replying to almost every noobie post by complaining about how their question has already been asked
2. heavily trolling said noobie posts, trying to get them to leave the forum because they are afraid of change
3. calling the noob himself/herself a troll if they sound anywhere near intelligent
4. lashing out at the noob when the noob lashes out at the trouble that THEY instigated in the first place
5. spraying their verbal diarrhea (arrogance and pomposity) all over the place
Regarding #1, if it was against forum rules to post anything that had already been posted, the life expectancy of any forum would be measured in months.
Regarding this topic in general, it's just the nature of forums. It's not just here. Already someone has had one of their replies to my OP deleted.
Thank God for people like you on forums!
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I did my 4th lesson today. Today was a lot different. 15 knot crosswind, strong winds aloft, and turbulence. We did power on and power off stalls. The winds were to the point where the instructor did the landing. He used almost all of the 3500 foot runway to get that 152 down, coming in a little faster than normal to maintain good control surface effectiveness in the wind.
Today's flight was a real eye opener. Flying in windy conditions is not easy. It gave me a tremendous appreciation for weather reports, and taught me that when I get my PPL I need to check said reports very carefully before deciding to fly. I would say that if I was a certificated pilot, I would not have flown today just for the sheer pleasure of it, would not have been worth it. Granted, I don't know what I am talking about yer (officially), but I am doubting that my opinion will change much. A 15 knot crosswind might not sound much to experienced pilots, I know.
Today's flight was a real eye opener. Flying in windy conditions is not easy. It gave me a tremendous appreciation for weather reports, and taught me that when I get my PPL I need to check said reports very carefully before deciding to fly. I would say that if I was a certificated pilot, I would not have flown today just for the sheer pleasure of it, would not have been worth it. Granted, I don't know what I am talking about yer (officially), but I am doubting that my opinion will change much. A 15 knot crosswind might not sound much to experienced pilots, I know.