Difference between USA and Europe

[USA1pilot]

I am a new jaa ppl pilot and I like to fly around in Europe but I still have some questions about some things here.

1. How does it work with the flightplan over here filling is not the problem but were do you open and close your VFR flightplan? Because in the USA you do it at the FFS.

2. How does it work if I want to fly from one country to another? I know I need to file a flight plan for that but how does it work with ATC communication and preperation.

3. How does it work with the landing fees?

Thanks in advance, other tips are also welcome!

[miroc]

1. How does it work with the flightplan over here filling is not the problem but were do you open and close your VFR flightplan? Because in the USA you do it at the FFS.

On controlled airports the controller (ATC,AFIS) will do. If flying from uncontrolled place, the first controller you will speak with.

2. How does it work if I want to fly from one country to another? I know I need to file a flight plan for that but how does it work with ATC communication and preparation.

It is easy, like this: "Vienna information, G-ABCD, 2 minutes before border, request handover" "G-ABCD contact Bratislava information 124,3 Good by"
Regarding preparation you will need sometimes cross the border at prescribed reporting points, in western Europe it is rare in my opinion. Sometimes the flightplan is required to contain the EET to the border. That's all provided you are within EU and Shengen.

3. How does it work with the landing fees?

You have to see the office at the airport (big black C) and there is somebody who will collect the money they are good at it

On big airports it is expensive, basically dozens EUR for landing and even more for mandatory handling, the cancer of GA.

In the sum it is not complicated, nor expensive if you pay attention before the flight. Just call or check the website of the airport.

In Europe the countries have sometimes different regulations like transition altitudes, night flying rules and so on... You have to check the AIP of the particular country. It is no big hassle, everything on the net.

Miroc

[Ryan5252]

Not wanting to open up any old wounds but don't forget about PPR!

[BackPacker]

"Vienna information, G-ABCD, 2 minutes before border, request handover" "G-ABCD contact Bratislava information 124,3 Good by"

As far as I know there is no requirement to talk to anybody when crossing a border - with the obvious exception of FIR boundaries that lie in controlled airspace or abutt controlled airspace.

At least Dutch Mil, at a presentation at our club about a year ago, told us so.

So you can fly uncontrolled throughout Europe without talking to anyone.

Sometimes the flightplan is required to contain the EET to the border.

I understand that's something that's always required. EET/EBBU0030 in the remarks field should do just fine. (Means: Estimated En-route Time to the EBBU FIR boundary is 30 minutes.)

The best advice that I can give you is to book two hours of solid groundschool with an instructor as soon as you get back. During those two hours, do a mock plan&execute of an international flight. Learn where to find METARs, TAFs, NOTAMs, en-route weather, how to plan your flight keeping clear of controlled airspace, or asking for transits through controlled airspace, transponder procedures, customs/immigration procedures, submitting/opening/closing flight plans, booking in/out, the GAR form, different radio procedures and so on and so forth.

[patowalker]

As far as I know there is no requirement to talk to anybody when crossing a border - with the obvious exception of FIR boundaries that lie in controlled airspace or abutt controlled airspace.

Don't try that when crossing the French border. See ENR 1.2-8

https://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv...03_ENR-1.2.pdf

[BackPacker]

Nice. But the article number is actually 1.2.13.

Dutch Mil told us they did not need contact. They could see from your mode-S return what your callsign was and correlate that with the flight plan. But of course the Netherlands is one of the few countries where mode-S is required even for VFR flight. So I agree that this might be different in other countries.

[patowalker]

Nice. But the article number is actually 1.2.13.

I did not refer to an article, but the page covering radio contact. Hence the hyphen, instead of a full stop between 2 and 8.

[IO540]

So you can fly uncontrolled throughout Europe without talking to anyone.

That's news to me.

Each country has surveillance going on, for national security purposes.

In practice, it is not strictly operated, and in any case it is often not clear what form of contact should be used on the handover. Take the silly case of Lydd to Le Touquet. You cross the FIR boundary, switching from the Lydd Frequency direct to the LTQ frequency. Taking this further, you could fly Bournemouth to Rouen with just the one frequency change, and I am sure nobody would question it.

Flight plans are mandatory for any border crossing but again in practice one can get away with a flight even if the FP was lost (has happened to me many times; even IFR/Eurocontrol FPs get lost sometimes). ATC just deals with it.

But it is best to not push this. In a well-publicised stunt, one man flew a Vari-EZ UK to Switzerland non-radio and non-FP (having initially pretended to be doing a diversion within the UK) and got done £20000 by the UK CAA. There was some appeal later regarding the size of the fine but nobody seems to know the details.

[patowalker]

Take the silly case of Lydd to Le Touquet. You cross the FIR boundary, switching from the Lydd Frequency direct to the LTQ frequency.

According to my interpretation of the rules, you should contact Paris North FIS first, and if contact is not possible with Paris North, you should contact Calais, before switching to LTQ. I know it sounds silly and doesn't happen in practice, but ...

The unit to be contacted
The radio contact must be established first with the flight information
centre (FIC) or flight information sector (FIS) concerned.
If it is impossible to establish radio contact with the FIC or the FIS
concerned when crossing the border, the pilot must contact preferably
the air traffic control units set up on the aerodromes, which are listed
below, in order to transmit them the «border crossed» message.
Border aerodromes concerned:
Border crossed report:
The mandatory report message shall include information:
- aircraft registration;
- aerodrome of departure/of destination;
- “border crossed” indication;
- position/altitude/time;
If it was not possible to transmit the “border crossed” message when
crossing the border, the message must be completed by the position
and altitude when the transmission is possible.
Contact not possible
If the pilot cannot make this contact for reasons against his will, he must,
after landing, contact the police and customs services and the local air
traffic control units concerned or, otherwise, the Area Control Center
(ACC) concerned:
AJACCIO NAPOLEON BONAPARTE LFKJ
BALE MULHOUSE LFSB
BASTIA PORETTA LFKB
BIARRITZ-BAYONNE ANGLET LFBZ
CALAIS DUNKERQUE LFAC
CHAMBERY AIX-LES-BAINS LFLB
LILLE LESQUIN LFQQ
NICE COTE D’AZUR LFMN
PERPIGNAN RIVESALTES LFMP
STRASBOURG ENTZHEIM LFST

[IO540]

According to my interpretation of the rules, you should contact Paris North FIS first, and if contact is not possible with Paris North, you should contact Calais, before switching to LTQ. I know it sounds silly and doesn't happen in practice, but ...

That's exactly what I was getting at.

What I think happens is that provided you have filed a flight plan, ATC is a lot more casual about traffic which did not call them up.

Pre-IR (pre 2006) I did extensive VFR touring around Europe, as far as Crete, and the handovers were always strictly organised. I never tried to go non-radio and it was obvious from the general ATC demeanour down in some of those parts that it would not go down very well. Elsewhere, like UK-France, things are a lot more relaxed, and they have to be because a lot of VFR flight plans get lost anyway.

[USA1pilot]

Ok thanks for your information. I have one more question for example I want to fly from antwerp to lelystad in the netherlands, I can get the weather and file the flight plan via the belgocontrol website.

And then when I contact Antwerp ground in initial contact he opens my flightplan without me even asking for it?

And then the person in lelystad closes it automatically for me?

So unlike in the USA I don`t have to switch to the ffs freq open my flightplan and when on the ground I don`t have to call on the phone to close it.

[seat 0A]

They should automatically open and close your flightplan, but it doesn`t hurt to ask. Especially at uncontrolled airfields like Lelystad.
On a controlled airfield you ask for permission for startup, which will also mean that your flightplan is opened.

[BackPacker]

At a controlled field it's indeed ATC which opens or closes the flightplan, but it does help to check.

In the Netherlands, a flight plan is mandatory when departing or arriving at a controlled field, so plans are opened/closed by default. Also, flight plans are mandatory for international flight so if the controller knows that your destination is in another country, he will know that there is (or rather: should be) a plan in the system. But if in doubt, simply ask for confirmation.

At uncontrolled fields, it's your responsibility to close the flight plan. You typically walk to the C and ask them to phone the appropriate FIS to close the plan. Lots of fields ask your details over the radio upon first contact and once they know/suspect there's a flight plan in the system, they will call the FIS on their own accord as soon as you have landed successfully.

You can file a flight plan with Belgocontrol and they will distribute it for you to all relevant parties. If you're based in Belgium and normally use Belgocontrol, they will typically even assist you in filing a plan for a flight that happens to be outside Belgium. But otherwise you'll find that the airfield operator has a stack of ICAO forms which you can fill in, and they'll fax it to the appropriate FIS for filing.

So in short: At controlled fields there's typically a handling company, or a local flying club that's assisting you, and at uncontrolled fields there's typically an airfield operator. They can help you with all your flight planning needs.

[USA1pilot]

OK thanks that were all my questions! And for that occasion I go to a field and it happens to be that there is nobody I can call the Brussels ARO myself to close it right? And to fly international from one shengen country to another I don`t have to land at a customs field?

[miroc]

At uncontrolled fields, it's your responsibility to close the flight plan.

If my first radio contact is with ATC or FISO at the departure airport, he will find the plan because you will say something like "XXX Tower G-ABCD, Cessna 172 on apron, VFR flight plan to Lelystad, request departure information".

If the first contact is XXX Information (provided you took off from an uncontrolled airfield) you will say "XXX Information G-ABCD, Cessna 172 on VFR flight plan to Lelystad, just departed ZZZ, departure time 45". This allows him to activate the plan by filling the departure time.

If the destination is controlled field, they will close your plan.

If uncontrolled, I am used to close the plan on short final like this "XXX Information, G-ABCD short final runway 24, please close my flightplan." You talked to him all the time, he knows who you are and where you are. The response will be "G-ABCD flightplan closed, landing time 55".

Works for me every time.

[miroc]

And for that occasion I go to a field and it happens to be that there is nobody I can call the Brussels ARO myself to close it right?

Close it from the air, it is the most convenient way.

And to fly international from one shengen country to another I don`t have to land at a customs field?

For flight whithin Shengen countries thre is no need to land at customs field, only for the first time, you do the ENTRY to Shengen area.

[USA1pilot]

Ok thank you all. The system over here is way different from that in the US, there you only file for SAR purpose.

[BackPacker]

there you only file for SAR purpose.

Actually in the US you also need to file for an international flight and for any flight in/through the ADIZ (as I recall). But it's a lot less likely that you'll encounter any of those circumstances during your PPL training.

And if you're worried about SAR, you'd normally get flight following. That'll alert the authorities much quicker, if you go missing somehow.

[IO540]

The system over here is way different from that in the US, there you only file for SAR purpose.

Same here (if VFR).

The only difference is that the USA is one country

The only time that flight plans are mandatory for flights wholly within the UK is when flying a high altitude IFR flight i.e. in controlled airspace, and these are filed via Eurocontrol (example). You need the full IR for that, too; the IMC Rating is no good because most of the route will be in Class A. The reason one needs a proper filed flight plan for these flights is because the UK doesn't really support the idea of "popup" IFR clearances. In some other European countries things are more relaxed but in general you have to file a flight plan for IFR.

[IO540]

Eventually I imagine that European airspace will function as a single 'country'

It already does for IFR. You can fly from one end of Europe to the other and except for more or less legible "ATC English" you won't know which country you are over.

Politically it will never happen, which is just as well since Europe is made of mostly very mismatched countries.