Finding out circuit height in the UK
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Finding out circuit height in the UK
This is a rant, but I'm sort of hoping that somebody knows a better source of information than I do.
I'm just putting together a planning pack for myself for a 2 day trip: Cranfield - Exeter - Leeds Bradford - Cranfield. Usual stuff: PLogs, pages from Pooleys, booked handling, lines on charts - we're all trained in it.
One thing that occurred to me, because I am very poor at remembering it at any given airport on a given day, is circuit height. A really fundamental bit of information if you are planning a visual approach.
So my question is WHY do so many airports make this information so damned hard to find.
Cranfield - it's buried on page 2 of a 3 page Pooleys entry, thankfully at the bottom of the first page of the AFE VFR guide entry, page 7 (of 8) of the ICAO textual data and nowhere in the ICAO aerodrome chart (=the thing most likely to be open on my kneeboard).
Exeter, nope, just can't find it anywhere - not in Pooleys, not in the ICAO textual data, not in the AFE VFR guide.
Leeds-Bradford, in the ICAO textual data on page 8 (of 12) I find a reference to minimum height for training circuits, but nothing applicable to standard circuits; nothing in Pooleys, nothing in AFE.
Okay, this is only a snapshot of three airfields - but surely for anybody arriving VFR, this is a vital bit of information, that should be immediately to hand? And taking a sample of randome airfields through Pooleys, at-least 50% of airfields in there aren't immediately declaring a circuit height.
So, we either guess - which we shouldn't do, but I'll bet it happens a lot, or clutter up the RT asking (which I hardly ever hear), or what???
Am I missing something really simple, or should this just be part of the standard ICAO aerodrome plate, and then by extrapolation the standard commercial flight guides? And somewhere really obvious!
I am aware that in the USA there's a standard circuit height of 1000ft aal unless declared otherwise, but I don't *think* that exists here?
G
I'm just putting together a planning pack for myself for a 2 day trip: Cranfield - Exeter - Leeds Bradford - Cranfield. Usual stuff: PLogs, pages from Pooleys, booked handling, lines on charts - we're all trained in it.
One thing that occurred to me, because I am very poor at remembering it at any given airport on a given day, is circuit height. A really fundamental bit of information if you are planning a visual approach.
So my question is WHY do so many airports make this information so damned hard to find.
Cranfield - it's buried on page 2 of a 3 page Pooleys entry, thankfully at the bottom of the first page of the AFE VFR guide entry, page 7 (of 8) of the ICAO textual data and nowhere in the ICAO aerodrome chart (=the thing most likely to be open on my kneeboard).
Exeter, nope, just can't find it anywhere - not in Pooleys, not in the ICAO textual data, not in the AFE VFR guide.
Leeds-Bradford, in the ICAO textual data on page 8 (of 12) I find a reference to minimum height for training circuits, but nothing applicable to standard circuits; nothing in Pooleys, nothing in AFE.
Okay, this is only a snapshot of three airfields - but surely for anybody arriving VFR, this is a vital bit of information, that should be immediately to hand? And taking a sample of randome airfields through Pooleys, at-least 50% of airfields in there aren't immediately declaring a circuit height.
So, we either guess - which we shouldn't do, but I'll bet it happens a lot, or clutter up the RT asking (which I hardly ever hear), or what???
Am I missing something really simple, or should this just be part of the standard ICAO aerodrome plate, and then by extrapolation the standard commercial flight guides? And somewhere really obvious!
I am aware that in the USA there's a standard circuit height of 1000ft aal unless declared otherwise, but I don't *think* that exists here?
G
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I would phone up the airfield/airport you are visiting well in advance, but I agree the VFR flight guide misses out some important information with regards to circuit heights
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CAA safety poster:
GA Safety Poster: Standard Overhead Join | Publications | CAA
for "standard overhead join" gives 1,000ft for ?standard? circuit, maybe?
So that is what we teach!
But never seen it as the "default" in other publications.
GA Safety Poster: Standard Overhead Join | Publications | CAA
for "standard overhead join" gives 1,000ft for ?standard? circuit, maybe?
So that is what we teach!
But never seen it as the "default" in other publications.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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I've always been under the impression that the default circuit height is 1000' QFE, and anything different from this should be in the AIP? I wouldn't necessarily gripe about a lack of information, I'd just fly at 1000' QFE.
Having said that, I know of at least one airport where the circuit height, as flown by local pilots and published in the VFR flight guides, is 800', although there is no mention of this in the AIP. This is where my gripe on this subject would be.
FFF
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Having said that, I know of at least one airport where the circuit height, as flown by local pilots and published in the VFR flight guides, is 800', although there is no mention of this in the AIP. This is where my gripe on this subject would be.
FFF
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1000 QFE is the normal default but airspace restrictions can lower the overhead join height e.g. White Waltham or cct height. Some like Goodwood have different cct heights for fixed wing (1200) and rotary (800 IIRC)whilst Popham has 800 ft for all with an inner microlight circuit and outer conventional fixed wing circuit. One of those UK charms that can catch you out and as one poster says, a call to a new destination can advise on local foibles and any noise procedures.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Rocco,
I'm not sure that Popham fits into this debate, because it's unlicensed.
Licensed airfields are listed in the AIP, which is the definitive source of information about them (supposedly, but see my earlier post above). All pilots should know where to find this information.
At unlicensed airfields, on the other hand, all bets are off. Yes, I know that Popham is not your average unknown farmstrip, it is a well known busy airfield. But because it is not licensed, there is no definitive place that a pilot can go to find information except to the airfield owner. A full briefing from the airfield owner should really be considered essential at any unlicensed airfield.
FFF
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I'm not sure that Popham fits into this debate, because it's unlicensed.
Licensed airfields are listed in the AIP, which is the definitive source of information about them (supposedly, but see my earlier post above). All pilots should know where to find this information.
At unlicensed airfields, on the other hand, all bets are off. Yes, I know that Popham is not your average unknown farmstrip, it is a well known busy airfield. But because it is not licensed, there is no definitive place that a pilot can go to find information except to the airfield owner. A full briefing from the airfield owner should really be considered essential at any unlicensed airfield.
FFF
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Why do it if it's not fun?
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I would suggest that, if there's sufficient information there, reviewing the airfield's official website constitutes a "full briefing from the airfield owner"!
Popham isn't your typical farm-strip, but I still maintain that it's not representative of other airfields which are licensed, because the AIP is not the definitive place to look for this information. By linking to their website (which I guess probably is definitive), you've proved my point!
FFF
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Popham isn't your typical farm-strip, but I still maintain that it's not representative of other airfields which are licensed, because the AIP is not the definitive place to look for this information. By linking to their website (which I guess probably is definitive), you've proved my point!
FFF
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Correct me if im wrong here but isn't 100Ft QFE the standard circuit height for a licenced airfield, but if conducting an overhead join at an unlicenced airfield then this should be (in theory) conducted as an overhead join at 2000ft decending on deadside to QFE 1000ft then completing normal cicuit and approach.
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Height is still height, even if you are using QNH and need to add elevation.
Those of you asserting that the UK standard is 1000ft / left hand, can anybody give an official document reference? 'cos I certainly couldn't find one.
G
Those of you asserting that the UK standard is 1000ft / left hand, can anybody give an official document reference? 'cos I certainly couldn't find one.
G
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in Germany, traffic pattern heights are listed in the AIP charts in MSL for most fields (ALL are licenced here) and is usually 1000 ft. AGL.
There is an official document for planning (NfL II 37/00) that puts the standard pattern above ground level for airplanes at 800 ft. and for ultralights at 600 ft., but most fields stick to the 1000 ft. AGL whenever possible.
There is an official document for planning (NfL II 37/00) that puts the standard pattern above ground level for airplanes at 800 ft. and for ultralights at 600 ft., but most fields stick to the 1000 ft. AGL whenever possible.
Height is still height, even if you are using QNH
Altitude 1000 ft means your datum is QNH whilst
Height 1000 ft means you datum is QFE
CAP413 Ch 3 Level Reporting.
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FFS people. Less QNH/QFE Altitude/Height willy waving and we might get somewhere!
Circuit height should be 1000ft aal
AKA Height: 1000ft QFE
AKA Altitude 1000ft QNH +/- Airfield Elevation.
these always get confused.