IMCr
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IMCr
I wanted to ask those who have the IMCr rating for some of their advice, experiences and thoughts for someone (like me) who is near the end of their own IMCr
Do people use the IMCr just as a get out of jail card? Or do you look to exercise the privileges actively?
Equally, when flying into somewhere which has an instrument approach is it common practice to request to use this approach so as to gain more experience even in perfect conditions or do you fly the normal VFR procedure?
Can you say just rock up at Biggin on a perfect day and ask to use their ILS just to get more experience with him? Or does that just pi$s off a lot of people in an otherwise busy circuit?
My iphone has a lot of applications that tell you the cloud base etc but I still struggle to find where to expect the tops of cloud to be – no doubt this is on one of the met office sites, but if someone can direct me to a good reliable site that gives this information in English that would be greatly appreciated as well
Finally, on the use of GPS for approaches
I realise that this isn’t covered in the course but was curious as to what I can expect to get from gaining experience from such aids after gaining the IMCr. I mean how much can a GPS / auto pilot etc do for you / me / realistically in a general aviation sense?
I guess, how do you use your GPS in the real world to fly a standard approach in IMC?
Thanks for any input
Nick
Do people use the IMCr just as a get out of jail card? Or do you look to exercise the privileges actively?
Equally, when flying into somewhere which has an instrument approach is it common practice to request to use this approach so as to gain more experience even in perfect conditions or do you fly the normal VFR procedure?
Can you say just rock up at Biggin on a perfect day and ask to use their ILS just to get more experience with him? Or does that just pi$s off a lot of people in an otherwise busy circuit?
My iphone has a lot of applications that tell you the cloud base etc but I still struggle to find where to expect the tops of cloud to be – no doubt this is on one of the met office sites, but if someone can direct me to a good reliable site that gives this information in English that would be greatly appreciated as well
Finally, on the use of GPS for approaches
I realise that this isn’t covered in the course but was curious as to what I can expect to get from gaining experience from such aids after gaining the IMCr. I mean how much can a GPS / auto pilot etc do for you / me / realistically in a general aviation sense?
I guess, how do you use your GPS in the real world to fly a standard approach in IMC?
Thanks for any input
Nick
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Do people use the IMCr just as a get out of jail card? Or do you look to exercise the privileges actively?
Equally, when flying into somewhere which has an instrument approach is it common practice to request to use this approach so as to gain more experience even in perfect conditions or do you fly the normal VFR procedure?
Can you say just rock up at Biggin on a perfect day and ask to use their ILS just to get more experience with him?
Yes.
Or does that just pi$s off a lot of people in an otherwise busy circuit?
If it is a nice day, I would phone them up first. Cranfield is the one place which dislikes IFR arrivals unless it is a based flying school
My iphone has a lot of applications that tell you the cloud base etc but I still struggle to find where to expect the tops of cloud to be – no doubt this is on one of the met office sites, but if someone can direct me to a good reliable site that gives this information in English that would be greatly appreciated as well
The bases you get from tafs and metars along the route.
Finally, on the use of GPS for approaches
I realise that this isn’t covered in the course but was curious as to what I can expect to get from gaining experience from such aids after gaining the IMCr. I mean how much can a GPS / auto pilot etc do for you / me / realistically in a general aviation sense?
I guess, how do you use your GPS in the real world to fly a standard approach in IMC?
I realise that this isn’t covered in the course but was curious as to what I can expect to get from gaining experience from such aids after gaining the IMCr. I mean how much can a GPS / auto pilot etc do for you / me / realistically in a general aviation sense?
I guess, how do you use your GPS in the real world to fly a standard approach in IMC?
Any half decent autopilot installation will track a GPS and will also track a GPS approach, in the lateral manner.
Vertical guidance is currently available only on ILS approaches. GPS approaches with vertical guidance are a hot topic at present because the extra satellite (EGNOS) is now apparently operational and these approaches will probably be around in a few years' time. How many of them will be at airports which don't already have an ILS is an interesting question
The most relevant question re GPS approaches is whether they will ever be allowed at airfields which don't have full ATC. That would then be of real benefit to GA.
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I will have a go.
People use the IMCr (and IR) in a whole host of ways. The illusion that no one uses the rating seriously is just that - an illusion, while on balance it would be fair that IMCr holders as a population are more cautious about how and when they use their priviliges than IR holders.
That depends. Generally the weather is not the over riding factor - but how busy the circuit is. Many airports are not busy during the week and will happily accomodate you whatever the weather. Equally on a glorious Saturday when the world and his wife is flying they will not want you shooting approaches for training. Many airports these days require you to book practice approaches so it is worth checking.
This one is an old chestnut. There are very few good sources of accurate cloud top information and event hen you often need to do so calcualtions for yourself. IO540 of this parishes web site has some of the best information on this subject and would be a good place to start.
The reality is you use a GPS all the time in every aspect of the flight. Most IFR pilots will do very little VOR tracking and the vast majority of en route flying is based on their GPS. So far as approaches are concerned nearly ever IFR pilot with GPS will "back up" and approach with thier GPS - doubtless in the case of an NDB DME approach the reality is they will fly the approach based on the GPS with the NDB DME "backing up" the GPS!
Do people use the IMCr just as a get out of jail card? Or do you look to exercise the privileges actively?
Can you say just rock up at Biggin on a perfect day and ask to use their ILS just to get more experience with him? Or does that just pi$s off a lot of people in an otherwise busy circuit?
That depends. Generally the weather is not the over riding factor - but how busy the circuit is. Many airports are not busy during the week and will happily accomodate you whatever the weather. Equally on a glorious Saturday when the world and his wife is flying they will not want you shooting approaches for training. Many airports these days require you to book practice approaches so it is worth checking.
My iphone has a lot of applications that tell you the cloud base etc but I still struggle to find where to expect the tops of cloud to be – no doubt this is on one of the met office sites, but if someone can direct me to a good reliable site that gives this information in English that would be greatly appreciated as well
This one is an old chestnut. There are very few good sources of accurate cloud top information and event hen you often need to do so calcualtions for yourself. IO540 of this parishes web site has some of the best information on this subject and would be a good place to start.
I guess, how do you use your GPS in the real world to fly a standard approach in IMC?
The reality is you use a GPS all the time in every aspect of the flight. Most IFR pilots will do very little VOR tracking and the vast majority of en route flying is based on their GPS. So far as approaches are concerned nearly ever IFR pilot with GPS will "back up" and approach with thier GPS - doubtless in the case of an NDB DME approach the reality is they will fly the approach based on the GPS with the NDB DME "backing up" the GPS!
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The most relevant question re GPS approaches is whether they will ever be allowed at airfields which don't have full ATC. That would then be of real benefit to GA.
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"Do people use the IMCr just as a get out of jail card? Or do you look to exercise the privileges actively?"
Neither and both. I use the IMC to allow me to earn money on days when without it I could not.
As an FI it allows me to get VFR on top an teach lessons that require a good horizon. Its also frequently breathtakingly beautiful above the clouds which often impresses my customers.
My base doesn't have an instrument approach but a couple of nearish regional international airports do so it also give me the security that I am legal and capable of shooting an approach if the home base drops below limits.
The IMC is also cheap to keep current.
Its without doubt a very useful rating for my needs.
Neither and both. I use the IMC to allow me to earn money on days when without it I could not.
As an FI it allows me to get VFR on top an teach lessons that require a good horizon. Its also frequently breathtakingly beautiful above the clouds which often impresses my customers.
My base doesn't have an instrument approach but a couple of nearish regional international airports do so it also give me the security that I am legal and capable of shooting an approach if the home base drops below limits.
The IMC is also cheap to keep current.
Its without doubt a very useful rating for my needs.
Life's too short for ironing
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Equally, when flying into somewhere which has an instrument approach is it common practice to request to use this approach so as to gain more experience even in perfect conditions or do you fly the normal VFR procedure?
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How you use the IMC depends on how current you are, and staying current is the biggest problem for IMC holders.
It can be hard for those who rent, but staying current is hard if you are a renter, anyway.
The privilege limitations of the IMCr do not meaningfully reduce your ability to stay current. The only exception I can think of is that you can't do approaches into the Channel Islands airports (and France, of course).
Similarly, from the time I was an IMCr renter, if anything, it was easier to stay current, because those days which were ideal for you to practice in real IMC were also the ones that the aircraft were most available.
The real barriers are time, money and inclination. There is no escaping the cost of the flying, paying for approaches as applicable, and paying for an instructor from time to time. There is the extra brush-up reading and the charts and planning. You can't stay IFR current on the money and time budget that you could be reasonably VFR current. But having said all that, there is nothing to stop an IMCr renter staying current. I don't rent, and I fly with an IR - but in reality I find I have to do special currency trips on a days with bad weather, or with a safety pilot, because you just don't encounter real IMC that often in the course of normal to keep good currency in all phases of flight.
Renting a school airplane for which you don't pay approach fees at the home basecan be excellent value. The fees saved can be a very significant part of the rental cost.
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Thread creep!!
With the grandfather rights being carried over under EASA for IMCr, will this allow the IMCr to be used in Europe?? Probably not, but just wondering??
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I think the biggest issue with IFR and renting is that most rental stuff is no good for IFR. Duff avionics etc. There are some notable exceptions but they are not common around the UK.
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Concur
I have weighed heavily whether to upgrade my IMCr to Full IR. I was waiting to see what EASA would bring, however, the wait will remain a little longer.
I tend to use every flight, in an equipped IFR aircraft, as an IFR training flight.ie, VOR track, even on bright days I will set the ILS, and practice the approach.I also set the NDB'S, and DME, again, in a sense to regulate my flying.
I do this because,unless you are regularly flying IFR, then I found the opporunities to actually use the privileges were few and far between.I was also a bit concerned that I would get 'rusty' and forget elements of IFR flying,if not practiced regularly, however, this has not happened. I also utilise an instructor, to hone some 'difficult'let downs, some I am not sure I would ever attempt, however, the experience is good.
I try and cram in a fair bit of night flying, again, setting all the aids.
I tend to use every flight, in an equipped IFR aircraft, as an IFR training flight.ie, VOR track, even on bright days I will set the ILS, and practice the approach.I also set the NDB'S, and DME, again, in a sense to regulate my flying.
I do this because,unless you are regularly flying IFR, then I found the opporunities to actually use the privileges were few and far between.I was also a bit concerned that I would get 'rusty' and forget elements of IFR flying,if not practiced regularly, however, this has not happened. I also utilise an instructor, to hone some 'difficult'let downs, some I am not sure I would ever attempt, however, the experience is good.
I try and cram in a fair bit of night flying, again, setting all the aids.
I tend to use every flight, in an equipped IFR aircraft, as an IFR training flight.ie, VOR track, even on bright days I will set the ILS, and practice the approach.I also set the NDB'S, and DME, again, in a sense to regulate my flying.
Simulated instrument flight
23 (1) An aircraft shall not be flown in simulated instrument flight conditions unless the conditions in paragraph (2) are met.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are as follows:
Practice instrument approaches(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are as follows:
(a) the aircraft is fitted with dual controls which are functioning properly;
(b) an additional pilot (in this rule called a 'safety pilot') is carried in a second control seat of the aircraft for the purpose of providing assistance to the pilot flying the aircraft; and
(c) if the safety pilot's field of vision is not adequate, both forwards and to each side of the aircraft, a third person, who is a competent observer, occupies a position in the aircraft from which his field of vision makes good the deficiencies in that of the safety pilot, and from which he can readily communicate with the safety pilot.
(b) an additional pilot (in this rule called a 'safety pilot') is carried in a second control seat of the aircraft for the purpose of providing assistance to the pilot flying the aircraft; and
(c) if the safety pilot's field of vision is not adequate, both forwards and to each side of the aircraft, a third person, who is a competent observer, occupies a position in the aircraft from which his field of vision makes good the deficiencies in that of the safety pilot, and from which he can readily communicate with the safety pilot.
24 (1) An aircraft shall not carry out an instrument approach practice within the United Kingdom if it is flying in Visual Meteorological Conditions unless the conditions in paragraph (2) are met.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are as follows:
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are as follows:
(a) the appropriate air traffic control unit has previously been informed that the flight is to be made for the purpose of instrument approach practice; and
(b) if the flight is not being carried out in simulated instrument flight conditions, a competent observer is carried in such a position in the aircraft that he has an adequate field of vision and can readily communicate with the pilot flying the aircraft.
(b) if the flight is not being carried out in simulated instrument flight conditions, a competent observer is carried in such a position in the aircraft that he has an adequate field of vision and can readily communicate with the pilot flying the aircraft.
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Don't forget the ANO requirements
So you can fly IFR and navigate by instruments en route with nothing extra needed to comply with these rules, but you need a sane human being as a passenger to make an approach.
It's a bit odd really as there's no such requirement when you're flying an approach for real, and you might be in brilliant sunshine above a cloud layer staring at the instruments with no passenger perfectly legally.
So you can fly IFR and navigate by instruments en route with nothing extra needed to comply with these rules, but you need a sane human being as a passenger to make an approach.
The point being simulated instrument flight in VMC - not flight under IFR in VMC.
If you are flying in VMC outside CAS, there's a chance that someone else will be flying VFR nearby. In VMC you must observe the Rules of the Air regarding collision avoidance / right of way. So, if you're head down following the dials in VMC, someone else must be there to look out for traffic which is expecting you to give way, but which you won't see yourself....
If you are flying in VMC outside CAS, there's a chance that someone else will be flying VFR nearby. In VMC you must observe the Rules of the Air regarding collision avoidance / right of way. So, if you're head down following the dials in VMC, someone else must be there to look out for traffic which is expecting you to give way, but which you won't see yourself....
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The only exception I can think of is that you can't do approaches into the Channel Islands airports
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I just called up Biggin to see what the process was for me to book an ILS approach for my imcr training for this coming Saturday (which will be my first full approach in my training) and they said that my aircraft, (a club C182) was too light and that they refused to take / allow training on the ILS for such aircraft – which frankly I think is pretty pi$s poor
Southend ILS is out until mid April (they say) so will try to get a slot at Oxford and Gloucester instead – any others that might be a good option?
Southend ILS is out until mid April (they say) so will try to get a slot at Oxford and Gloucester instead – any others that might be a good option?
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Manston is fine and will definitely take you, and Lydd is another alternative. You could also spend the day at Calais for next to nothing and get the fuel draw back which will go a long way towards the extra air time. Your instructor will technically need an IR at Calais although if you are flying the approach in VMC and ATC give permission (which they will) it should be OK.