NPPL

[tobster911]

Hi, I'm thinking of gaining my NPPL when I'm 17. I was wondering, if, upon gaining my license, I could fly the Tug aircraft at my local gliding club to raise hours? If so, if i built up, say 20 extra hours, could I count these towards my PPL in later (but not too much later) life

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thank you

[tinpilot]

An NPPL with a SSEA rating will allow you to fly as a tug pilot, but you will need a tailwheel endorsement to fly Lakes GC's Super Cub.

The problem you might have is that gliding clubs prefer to recruit their tuggies from within the club; they are unlikely to let an outsider with no gliding experience fly for them.

[tobster911]

I am part of Lakes GC and go gliding there as regularly as I can. Just wondering, how much would a Tail wheel conversion cost, and, if i got one, would it still allow me to fly, say, a cessna 172? thanks

[Genghis the Engineer]

Should be fine for a standard C172, just not some of the more exotic variations - you can't add variable pitch and retractable gear.

There's no legal issue with what you want to do, and if you're already an experienced glider pilot, then I think that you're likely to be the right person.

I'd suggest going and talking to the chief tug pilot and explaining the aspiration - given that you've not started the NPPL yet, there's then plenty of time to deal with any particular requirements he or she may wish to make.

A C172 is a nosegear aeroplane. Some clubs estimate five hours of training for a tailwheel conversion - which would allow you for example to fly a Chipmunk; however, if you have a lot of gliding hours, then it really shouldn't take more than a couple. Better still, just look for somewhere that you can do your NPPL in a taildragger, saving having to do the conversion.

G

[tobster911]

well, mainly, i want to progress to my PPL - CPL - ATPL and become an airline pilot, so I want to do my training in a nose wheel aircraft. So, if i went on, got my NPPL, got my tail wheel conversion, and then did, say 30 hours of flying in the Piper Super Cub, would i still have to do another 13 hours of training for my PPL, or would it be reduced?

[Genghis the Engineer]

If your objective is to eventually go commercial, then I'd seriously look at doing your JAR PPL straight off, in the long run it'll save you a lot of money.

Tailwheel time will only make you a better pilot: the transition from tailwheel to nosewheel is trivial, the reverse can take more time, money and effort.

If you can do your PPL in a Super Cub, do - it's a great aeroplane and you'll learn loads. Somewhere en-route to your CPL you'll have to fly more complex nosegear & retract aeroplanes anyhow; but, the skills learned in the Cub will stand you in excellent stead, and give you no real penalties.

G

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Why do the NPPL and then the PPL - why not do the PPL in the first place?

The only real reason to do the NPPL is if you can't pass the PPL medical, which you'll want to know about ASAP if you're planning a commercial career anyway.

[tobster911]

Its the money issue, im a bit inpatient, i REALLY want a license around my 17th birthday, but, because of the cost, im probably only going to be able to get my NPPL and then get a better full time job to raise funds for the rest of the training

Thank you

[Genghis the Engineer]

In that case, at the very least, make sure you do the NPPL using the JAR written exams, so that you don't have to retake any written exams later.

Presumably there's still a large hours dispensation for silver C holders taking an NPPL? That used to exist for the PPL(A) under CAA, but vanished when JAR came along - retained only by national licences.

In the meantime, you obviously have a passion for flying. Given that, do yourself a huge favour and look around at all of the flying jobs available, not just airline flying as a future career. Airline flying pays well, but is potentially the worst job for somebody who really loves aviation.

G

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Its the money issue, im a bit inpatient, i REALLY want a license around my 17th birthday, but, because of the cost, im probably only going to be able to get my NPPL

There won't be much difference and quite likely none.

Don't be fooled by the legal minimum hours being less for the NPPL - you'll need as many hours as you need to get your flying good enough, and for most people that's rather more than the minimum. It's not going to be rare to need more than the PPL minimum hours in order to get an NPPL, in which case you might as well take the PPL tests.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Normally, I'd agree with you Gertrude, but I'm not sure that's true for an experienced glider pilot, particularly if they hold a silver C.

G

[BEagle]

...you can't add variable pitch and retractable gear...

Wrong - you certainly may add VP and RG qualifications to an NPPL SSEA Class rating!

If tobster911 has done a reasonable amount of gliding, he may well be able to achieve an NPPL in the minimum legal time.

The requirements to upgrade from NPPL to PPL are in LASORS 2010 Section C6.2. Note that the stated hours requirements include NPPL training and are not additional - the hours stated are totals.

Those whose budgets are limited may prefer to start with an NPPL as the cost is less, the medical is cheaper and the privileges are adequate for UK day VFR flying. It isn't just a licence for those who cannot hold a JAA Medical Certificate.

[J.A.F.O.]

There's no reason why, if you found the right club/school, you couldn't do a JAR PPL and include a few hours on a tailwheel aircraft as part of the whole deal thereby making the total time and cost very similar to NPPL + tailwheel endorsement.

While I most certainly do not agree with the sentiment above that the only reason to get an NPPL is an inability to pass the medical, I don't see any advantage in your particular case in doing the NPPL first.

As always Beagle is correct.

[tobster911]

Thank you for all your replies, you've given me a lot to think about. When, Genghis the Engineer, you say that there are other options, and airline piloting is potentially the worst for me ( I do love aviation) what other jobs would you recommend? (Open to anyone...)
Again, thank you so much, you have been a great help, but any more opinions are greatly appreciated.

Also, whilst on this subject... I am part of the Air Cadets, and can do a flying scholarship next year. this includes 10 hours of training with a CAA instructor. If I started my NPPL training, and then did those 10 hours training, could I, theoretically, when i'm 17, do a few more hours and gain my PPL?

Thanks
tobster911

[znww5]

Probably best to take a look at the following link to see how previous experience can be credited towards an NPPL.

It would seem that as long as the flying scholarship training uses a 'conventional' single engine aricraft (ie not a Vigilant motor glider) and the instructor is CAA approved, then the hours would count towards an NPPL (SSEA).

Just cut and paste the whole of the following link - it doesn't seem to display properly for some reason:

www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/PDFs/NPPL XC REV 08.pdf

Best of luck with your flying

[BEagle]

If I started my NPPL training, and then did those 10 hours training, could I, theoretically, when i'm 17, do a few more hours and gain my PPL?

Yes. But one thing to watch out for is the effect of the wretched €urocrats and their pointless and unnecessary LAPL. Although there should be a 3 year transition period before this nonsense is introduced in the UK, there is no guarantee that the CAA won't repeat the mistake it made with JAR-FCL and try to introduce it in 2012.

Industry has a lot of flexibility when agreeing NPPL credits and waivers; however, when the leaden hand of €urocracy is forced upon us, that will probably cease.......

[kestrel539]

Your gliding club tugmaster will let you know if you can fly the tug.
There is often a min hours requirment.
After that, any hours you get will improve your flying, be it NPPL or PPL
or LAPL

[Deeday]

Just cut and paste the whole of the following link - it doesn't seem to display properly for some reason

Link that works: ALLOWANCES AGAINST TRAINING

[Genghis the Engineer]

When, Genghis the Engineer, you say that there are other options, and airline piloting is potentially the worst for me ( I do love aviation) what other jobs would you recommend? (Open to anyone...)

- Full time instructor (aeroplane, microlight, helicopter)

- Air taxi / charter

- (Helicopter) Pilot: possibly SAR, North Sea, police

- (What I do): aviation boffin combining research and flying work

- Fishery patrol

- Specialist aviation support (coastguard, surveying, calibration, BAS, missionary)

- Plus the many military flying jobs. Fighters, SAR, transport


Personally, I'd rather do just about any of those rather than fly scheduled airline service. But that's just me of-course.

Each may require some specific experience or interests in addition to the relevant licence(s) - but at 16, you have the time to pursue any of these, so long as you also have the basic ability and determination. I decided at about your age that I wanted to work in the technical side of aerospace, and about 20 refined that to test flying. I have, and I do - and trust me, I'm really not that bright, nor that blessed with fantastic flying abilities - what I do have is a lot of determination.,

G

[tobster911]

wow... Thank you. just out of interest, if i got my CPL etc and an FI rating, that would cost somewhere around, what, £27k, how much would i expect to be earning PA?

Thanks

I have thought about the possibility of setting up my own tour company, and then progressing onto charter etc, but, in todays economy, i'm thinking whether that would be a dead end, cost alot, gain practically nothing