Passenger Carrying - Beyond 90 days
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but the OP asked for the easiest way to stay current for SLF- that is it...
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Peter- yeah that was a typo... post edited now, and by currency I mean staying legal to carry passengers... probably not the best way to put it as being current is different for everyone...
Jack
Jack
Last edited by jackdhc1; 7th Mar 2011 at 00:58.
Either way it is plainly daft that a rated PPL (who may well be far more current on type in a privately owned aircraft than an instructor) should not be allowed to be present whilst the P1 gets himself/herself up to speed.
The 90 day requirement was copied into the ANO from JAR-FCL where it had been copied from FAR-AIM. Sadly, nobody bothered to make the wording watertight. By inference, if a passenger flies an aircraft to gain experience required to meet a pilot recency requirement, that person is acting as a pilot. As there is only one pilot in an aircraft certified for single pilot operation the other person becomes a passenger unless their operating capacity has been defined by the aircraft operator.
This is what happens when rules are copied and shuffled around by people who don't understand them. It was only after the ANO was amended that people started to realise the implications.
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Gertrude and Wombat,
I absolutely agree with you. I see nothing in the regulations to say that a pilot needs to sit beside an instructor to make his three landings, it is extremely sensible that he should do so if possible but he can also sit beside another qualified pilot or he can fly them solo.
An instructor is required if giving instruction in flying "for the issue or renewal of a licence"; in this case the out of currency pilot has a valid licence so an instructor is not required to supervise him. A suitably experienced pilot can fill this role but h would be the aircraft commander the hours may not be counted by the other pilot for licence issue or revalidation. If both pilots have defined responsibilities in the operation of the aircraft they are both crew-members.
Just because an aeroplane has a minimum crew of one pilot does not mean that the operator can't allocate two crew-members if it suits his purpose. Minimum does not also mean maximum!!
Happy landings (all three of them!)
3 point
I absolutely agree with you. I see nothing in the regulations to say that a pilot needs to sit beside an instructor to make his three landings, it is extremely sensible that he should do so if possible but he can also sit beside another qualified pilot or he can fly them solo.
An instructor is required if giving instruction in flying "for the issue or renewal of a licence"; in this case the out of currency pilot has a valid licence so an instructor is not required to supervise him. A suitably experienced pilot can fill this role but h would be the aircraft commander the hours may not be counted by the other pilot for licence issue or revalidation. If both pilots have defined responsibilities in the operation of the aircraft they are both crew-members.
Just because an aeroplane has a minimum crew of one pilot does not mean that the operator can't allocate two crew-members if it suits his purpose. Minimum does not also mean maximum!!
Happy landings (all three of them!)
3 point
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Hang on a minute.... The rule states 'as sole manipulator of the controls'. Does that mean that, in the last 90 days, you must have done 3 SOLO take offs & landings? I hardly ever fly on my own! We usually - as I'm sure many others do - go to another airfield, have a bite to eat, and then return, each doing one leg. We are both, if that's the case, illegal, and have been for years! 
No, it just means that the other chap shouldn't have touched the controls during the take off and landing.
And even that is nonsense, because the 90 day rule also applies to multi-crew aeroplanes, where both need to handle the controls at the same time: they work like that.
G
And even that is nonsense, because the 90 day rule also applies to multi-crew aeroplanes, where both need to handle the controls at the same time: they work like that.
G
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To summarise then....
If a pilots day 90 day rule has lapsed but his class rating is current, he must either...
A) Fly any aircraft in that class as PIC SOLO and undertake 3 or more take-offs and landings - touch and go's acceptable.
Or......
B) Fly any aircraft in that class as PIC but with an Instructor with him and likewise undertake 3 t/o and landings without the instructor's assistance.
Having done either A) or B) he can then fly as PIC with a passenger(s)
Must admit it does seem daft that he can do A) SOLO and log the 3 landings but he can't do it with a 12000 Hr ATPL with say 2000 hrs SEP class rating sat next to him......
If a pilots day 90 day rule has lapsed but his class rating is current, he must either...
A) Fly any aircraft in that class as PIC SOLO and undertake 3 or more take-offs and landings - touch and go's acceptable.
Or......
B) Fly any aircraft in that class as PIC but with an Instructor with him and likewise undertake 3 t/o and landings without the instructor's assistance.
Having done either A) or B) he can then fly as PIC with a passenger(s)
Must admit it does seem daft that he can do A) SOLO and log the 3 landings but he can't do it with a 12000 Hr ATPL with say 2000 hrs SEP class rating sat next to him......
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B) Fly any aircraft in that class as PIC but with an Instructor with him and likewise undertake 3 t/o and landings without the instructor's assistance.
If the lapsed pilot logs PIC, then the instructor is legally a passenger. Which is not allowed because the pilot is not current.
he can't do it with a 12000 Hr ATPL with say 2000 hrs SEP class rating sat next to him......
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Not sure how the lapsed pilot actually "logs" the 3 landings/take offs in his log book without the flight time? He is technically a passenger after all.
Has anyone done this?
If so what is the format of the entry?
Has anyone done this?
If so what is the format of the entry?
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I can't understand how this discussion is still ongoing. The 90 day rule is not complicated in any way, shape or form. You have to have done 3 TO/LDGs in the preceeding 90 days if you wish to carry passengers. Where is the confussion?
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Can a CRI be used instead of a full instructor (FI)?
Obviously as long as he's legally able, and current, to fly the plane as PIC.
Not sure how the lapsed pilot actually "logs" the 3 landings/take offs in his log book without the flight time? He is technically a passenger after all.
I would simply log the landings, add the time to the "total" time column, but not to any other column (or may be a PAX or SNY column if I'm feeling like it) and put in the remarks what actually happened.
That does leave us with another question. If you, as the lapsed pilot, logged the landings as passenger, what does your ATPL friend, who acted as PIC, log? Only one person can log the landings so he now ends up with a 15 minute flight in which no landing whatsoever was made, apparently.
(On the other hand, the PIC role can change in-flight if necessary, and that would lead to a number of landings not being equal to the number of take-offs anyway. So it wouldn't be that odd.)
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Fake Sealion - I did exactly that last week.
A short flight with an instructor who presumably logged it as P1
I logged mine as P/UT and am now legal to carry passengers again as I was the sole manipulator of the controls.
Hope this helps.
Ryan - agree totally!
A short flight with an instructor who presumably logged it as P1
I logged mine as P/UT and am now legal to carry passengers again as I was the sole manipulator of the controls.
Hope this helps.
Ryan - agree totally!
