End of Landing Fee's in UK
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How do people learn to land an aircraft properly when they have to pay for every landing?
How do people learn to land an aircraft properly when they have to pay for every landing?
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Just to clear up a few bits of “miss information”. Most strips are available PPR, and the numbers are in Navbox 99% of the time. Most have planning or legal use. Many are used for flight training on things like Eurostars and are considering expanding into GA training now the rules have changed. £20 for a landing fee…
With regard to sustainability, the strip world has existed for as long as I have been flying (1984). The only difference is there are now a lot more. People tend to lose sight of the fact that the average light aircraft will fly quite well out of 600m of Grass, without a lot of expensive infrastructure supporting it.
Rod1
With regard to sustainability, the strip world has existed for as long as I have been flying (1984). The only difference is there are now a lot more. People tend to lose sight of the fact that the average light aircraft will fly quite well out of 600m of Grass, without a lot of expensive infrastructure supporting it.
Rod1
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If a landing at an airfield has a value (and it surely has), it should be paid.
In USA the tax collected from Avgas is used to subsidise the airports, the money is not simply stolen by the government. In socialist Europe that money is stolen by governments and used elsewhere, where it is more visible to the electorate. And we must pay the tax in the price of avgas and landing fees on top of that.
The ideal system in my opinion is WITHOUT fuel-tax and WITH landing fees.
Everyone of us would be more happy.
The idea the local authorities should pay for the running cost of an airport sounds too socialist to me. Where will they get the money from? The answer is simple, print them or order higher taxes.
One of my friends plays tennis. He must pay a hourly fee for the tennis court. Does the local authority pay his fees too? The same logic...
miroc
In USA the tax collected from Avgas is used to subsidise the airports, the money is not simply stolen by the government. In socialist Europe that money is stolen by governments and used elsewhere, where it is more visible to the electorate. And we must pay the tax in the price of avgas and landing fees on top of that.
The ideal system in my opinion is WITHOUT fuel-tax and WITH landing fees.
Everyone of us would be more happy.
The idea the local authorities should pay for the running cost of an airport sounds too socialist to me. Where will they get the money from? The answer is simple, print them or order higher taxes.
One of my friends plays tennis. He must pay a hourly fee for the tennis court. Does the local authority pay his fees too? The same logic...
miroc
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Landing fees.
Mr.X99,
Canada is "mostly" a free landing fee zone but my 172RG always attracts a $53 landing fee in Calgary and I also have a Navigation chage as well.
My Canadian licence is not free, and each year I incur a fee for "processing" my renewal.
That is nothing compared to the "Ministry of Greed and Envy" as practiced in the UK and Europe where aviation is treated like a cash cow to be milked frequently.
In the US, the airports are usually city or county owned and regarded as an asset to bring business to visit the city, and help the economy. Fuel tax is also used to help in the cost. A totaly different attitude to you poor guys in Europe. A lot of civil airports will also have a National Guard in residence even with a military airport close by. The National Guard is paid for by the state so the state gets its dollars back with the use of the airport.
My US certificates, several. (licences) are all free although I pay the Medical Examiner for my medical. The FAA would love to start charging for their services but thankfully we are lucky so far.
We are very fortunate but the UK will never allow no landing fee's, dream on!!!
Speedbird48
Canada is "mostly" a free landing fee zone but my 172RG always attracts a $53 landing fee in Calgary and I also have a Navigation chage as well.
My Canadian licence is not free, and each year I incur a fee for "processing" my renewal.
That is nothing compared to the "Ministry of Greed and Envy" as practiced in the UK and Europe where aviation is treated like a cash cow to be milked frequently.
In the US, the airports are usually city or county owned and regarded as an asset to bring business to visit the city, and help the economy. Fuel tax is also used to help in the cost. A totaly different attitude to you poor guys in Europe. A lot of civil airports will also have a National Guard in residence even with a military airport close by. The National Guard is paid for by the state so the state gets its dollars back with the use of the airport.
My US certificates, several. (licences) are all free although I pay the Medical Examiner for my medical. The FAA would love to start charging for their services but thankfully we are lucky so far.
We are very fortunate but the UK will never allow no landing fee's, dream on!!!
Speedbird48
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Back to the topic, I can't see a rational basis for saying £20 is taking the micky. Sure, it could be lower, but you probably paid £100-200 to get there, and the difference to the airfield is huge (a factor of two actually 
).
Experience around the UK tells us that £20 delivers a much better maintained place than £10. Obviously much of it is down to management etc but £10 is evidently hard to make things work at.
Private strips can be free, etc, and there is a vast pilot community which will absolutely not pay more than £5 (they must fly mainly between strips) but then somebody is subsidising it by cutting the grass etc in their own time, which is lovely but not substainable.
).Experience around the UK tells us that £20 delivers a much better maintained place than £10. Obviously much of it is down to management etc but £10 is evidently hard to make things work at.
Private strips can be free, etc, and there is a vast pilot community which will absolutely not pay more than £5 (they must fly mainly between strips) but then somebody is subsidising it by cutting the grass etc in their own time, which is lovely but not substainable.
Another charges the same as a local regional spaceport. But here it is because of stringent restrictions on movements by the local authority and although the owner would love to welcome visitors, the local Nimbys are watching for a breach in the agreement to have the airfield closed.
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I never realized that students had to pay for "touch & Goes" each time during flight training. That is very poor practice. So really practicing landing could add $2000 on to flight training.
It is a simple solution,put "all-aerodromes" under county council authority ,private owners receive grants for maintenance. I can't see cutting grass once a week as being a big expense. Some say its complicated thats because ineffective bureaucracies make it that way. Very simple legislation. Present the bill to the floor,grease the right palms....job done.
Otherwise the extreme measure is to terminate UK aerospace authority under the new "EU Project" and put them under military authority and maintained by the NATO budget.
Easy solution.Just like tax free flight training,to kick stat the industry and compete with other countries. Otherwise in 5- years you will have little or no flight training here except for the elite,which it already is reserved for.
It is a simple solution,put "all-aerodromes" under county council authority ,private owners receive grants for maintenance. I can't see cutting grass once a week as being a big expense. Some say its complicated thats because ineffective bureaucracies make it that way. Very simple legislation. Present the bill to the floor,grease the right palms....job done.
Otherwise the extreme measure is to terminate UK aerospace authority under the new "EU Project" and put them under military authority and maintained by the NATO budget.
Easy solution.Just like tax free flight training,to kick stat the industry and compete with other countries. Otherwise in 5- years you will have little or no flight training here except for the elite,which it already is reserved for.
Thread Starter
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Gotta be a wind-up...
Other posts from him - made reference to the UK NPPL and that neither Canada or the US have an equivalent... i.e. he he had never heard of the Canadian Recreational Permit or the US Light Sport certificate"
Other posts from him - made reference to the UK NPPL and that neither Canada or the US have an equivalent... i.e. he he had never heard of the Canadian Recreational Permit or the US Light Sport certificate"
Thread Starter
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MR.X99 your use of English suggests that you are not a native. Where are you from
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The primary difference is in the medical. In the UK for a NPPL one does not need to visit an aviation medical examiner. The medical is the same as for a taxi driver,bus driver etc.A GP can sign you off.Different medical regulations.
Communities, cities, etc. have no funds to pay for or maintain airfields. Those that do own fields try to sell them, or turn them into more profitable industrial parks
Turn over the airfields to the city and you can expect it to be closed completely within a very short time!Most fields offer reduced landing fees for students, at least during the week (because of noise issues often not on the weekends).
As you see, there is a lot more involved here then simply saying get rid of landing fees!
Mowing the grass can be expensive depending on who does it. Many glider fields have a local farmer do it because he can keep the grass for his farm animals, so no cost. But that means he wants it to grow higher then is safe for flying, which can mean a whole lovely weekend on the ground! Others fields get mowed by club members, others have to hire someone.
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"How do people learn to land an aircraft properly when they have to pay for every landing?"
A far number of flying schools get free landing fees at there home base - although one could argue that this cost is paid and part of the shools rent.
I pay an annual fee at a couple of flying schools (about 100 quid for each) and as part of these terms I get unlimited T&G, Landing fees at those airfields.
This works pretty well but it doesn't give me access to night flying or instrument approaches which I still have to pay for.
Because of this I no longer teach night flying as its simply not cost effective. I also use AM radio stations to practice NDB procedures again in an effort to keep cost done.
A far number of flying schools get free landing fees at there home base - although one could argue that this cost is paid and part of the shools rent.
I pay an annual fee at a couple of flying schools (about 100 quid for each) and as part of these terms I get unlimited T&G, Landing fees at those airfields.
This works pretty well but it doesn't give me access to night flying or instrument approaches which I still have to pay for.
Because of this I no longer teach night flying as its simply not cost effective. I also use AM radio stations to practice NDB procedures again in an effort to keep cost done.
Hovering AND talking
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That is only possible in the UK because all medical data is centralised (so I haved read).
Cheers
Whirls
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Sorry, you read wrong. It's not centralised. If I transfer to another doctor, my medical records also have to be transferred. If I go to see another doctor in a different surgery, he can only rely on what I tell him.
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How do people learn to land an aircraft properly when they have to pay for every landing?
I read comments on this subject here and in the other place with a wry fascination. Off the topic of flying, the majority of posters on both pilot forums appear to be somewhere to the right of the Daily Mail (for non-UK residents, that is a very nasty, very right wing rag which is horribly popular in the UK) who will rant on about asylum seekers and benefit claimants yet want our expensive hobby subsidised by the state in one form or another. Sadly, our last five prime ministers have made it their mission to destroy the essential social infrastructure never mind discretionary things like airfields, you've got what you voted for people.
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Looks like editors are a dying breed. In modern times, authors by and large have never been much good at spelling (or in some cases, general literacy), so it's left to the proofreaders (another dying breed) and editor to turn manuscripts into recognisable English.X99
perhaps a positive Englishman is to be found yes?
