End of medical.
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: USA
Can I ask if you have any knowledge/experience of the CAA medicals and what they entail?
I have never held a CAA medical, and at six hundred dollars a pop for a Class III, you can safely bet that I never shall.
Does that answer your question?
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Who cares? ;-)
I have never paid more then €150 for a Class 1 medical renewal in Germany!
I knew a guy who had a valid medical certificate, had a bi-pass heart operation and thought he could still fly since his medical was still "valid"!
Another pilot I knew, back when we had 3 medical types and microlights needed none, lost his class 3 but continued flying microlights. Another had a restricted medical (after a stroke), meaning no passengers.... one day I saw him loading passengers on board for a flight anyway. 
Flying-crazy people will continue flying no matter how unhealthy they feel, medical or not, and, as has been said before, a medical does help to block some. Plus, I know that men are less likely to visit a doc routinely and, as a flying doc once said, he's glad when he sees some guys at least once every few years for a regular check-up... he can catch some things in advance that way. And that fact doesn't have to pertain to just flying.
I knew a guy who had a valid medical certificate, had a bi-pass heart operation and thought he could still fly since his medical was still "valid"!
Another pilot I knew, back when we had 3 medical types and microlights needed none, lost his class 3 but continued flying microlights. Another had a restricted medical (after a stroke), meaning no passengers.... one day I saw him loading passengers on board for a flight anyway. Flying-crazy people will continue flying no matter how unhealthy they feel, medical or not, and, as has been said before, a medical does help to block some. Plus, I know that men are less likely to visit a doc routinely and, as a flying doc once said, he's glad when he sees some guys at least once every few years for a regular check-up... he can catch some things in advance that way. And that fact doesn't have to pertain to just flying.
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From: EuroGA.org
I am sure it is possible to get medical tests etc done at one of the private clinics around the place - the sort of places where high power execs get sent for a "lifestyle" checkup.
But certainly having spoken to various doctors about this it is obvious that pilots are very very reluctant to see a doctor. The NHS is computerised nowadays and almost anywhere you go for any medical procedure asks the name and address of your doctor.
The CAA also gets you to sign a consent form to get your medical records, and they do get them (on the Class 1 anyway). This used to be the major way to dodge the system; your AME was never in contact with your GP.
But certainly having spoken to various doctors about this it is obvious that pilots are very very reluctant to see a doctor. The NHS is computerised nowadays and almost anywhere you go for any medical procedure asks the name and address of your doctor.
The CAA also gets you to sign a consent form to get your medical records, and they do get them (on the Class 1 anyway). This used to be the major way to dodge the system; your AME was never in contact with your GP.
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Timbuktoo
Originally Posted by SNS3Guppy
Does that answer your question?
Two points:
We are not comparing apples with apples comparing a CAA class 2 and FAA class 3. From my experience the FAA class 3 is passable by demonstrating you are breathing.
I think the quoted $600 is being used to suit your cause, it's nonsense.
My class 2 with an ECG in Dec. cost me £180 and I felt that was expensive.
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From: EuroGA.org
From my experience the FAA class 3 is passable by demonstrating you are breathing.
I was at one FAA aviation lawyer's presentation and a member of the audience (a "security orificer" at some UK airport) stood up and had a good old rant that they have a UK licensed pilot there who got a heart attack but continued to fly on an FAA license.
Anybody who knows the detail knows this is disingenuous nonsense. The FAA will ground you just the same, and both will let you fly, noncommercially, after various requirements are met, which takes about 6 months. And on renewal medicals it is equally possible to conceal stuff from an FAA or a CAA AME. If somebody has the balls to conceal a heart attack from his AMEs and his GP (which is possible) then all bets are off.
But encouraging the widespread belief that FAA medicals are easy doesn't do anybody any favours. It creates a lot of anti-US sentiment inside the usual places, who are all rubbing their hands at the moment anyway.
FAA medicals are just a lot cheaper...
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
Because I speak from experience too. I've had FAA medicals for 6 years (and UK ones for 11).
You wrote
Are you willing to stand by that statement?
If it is a joke, fair enough.
You wrote
FAA class 3 is passable by demonstrating you are breathing.
If it is a joke, fair enough.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Amsterdam
That said my experience is that it is not very thorough.
Does that lead to a better prediction about my medical condition in the future? I honestly don't know.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
I don't think either one is better than the other when it comes to seeing if the pilot is OK to fly. They test slightly different things.
There is a bigger cost difference on the Class 1. The world is full of commercial pilots flying on FAA Class 1 medicals, whose initial medical costs a fraction of the JAA one, yet there is no statistical evidence on the pilot incapacitation front on the FAA scene.
There is a bigger cost difference on the Class 1. The world is full of commercial pilots flying on FAA Class 1 medicals, whose initial medical costs a fraction of the JAA one, yet there is no statistical evidence on the pilot incapacitation front on the FAA scene.
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Plumpton Green
The FAA has filed the following differences with ICAO medical requirements:
CHAPTER 1
1.2.5.2 The interval between two medical fitness reports is up to 37 months less one day for the private pilot licence.
Medical certificates expire at the end of the last day of the month. As a result, medical certificatesissued by the FAA can be valid up to an additional month less one day than the ICAO Standards of Annex 1, 1.2.5.2.
1.2.5.2.2* Annex 1, 1.2.5.2.2, is not implemented in the FARs.
1.2.6 This Standard applies only to licences that require medical certification and, as a consequence, does not apply to the aircraft maintenance engineer and flight dispatcher licence.
*Recommended Practice
http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Ann...n01_sup162.pdf
CHAPTER 1
1.2.5.2 The interval between two medical fitness reports is up to 37 months less one day for the private pilot licence.
Medical certificates expire at the end of the last day of the month. As a result, medical certificatesissued by the FAA can be valid up to an additional month less one day than the ICAO Standards of Annex 1, 1.2.5.2.
1.2.5.2.2* Annex 1, 1.2.5.2.2, is not implemented in the FARs.
1.2.6 This Standard applies only to licences that require medical certification and, as a consequence, does not apply to the aircraft maintenance engineer and flight dispatcher licence.
*Recommended Practice
http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Ann...n01_sup162.pdf
Joined: Oct 2005
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From: USA
I knew a guy who had a valid medical certificate, had a bi-pass heart operation and thought he could still fly since his medical was still "valid"!
Following heart surgery, the FAA requires a long litany of test results be furnished, and reduces the interval of the medical certificate, as well as applies conditions and a waiver. Same for having had a heart attack. Stress tests on treadmills with EKG, physicians statements, and other data are required, and issuance of the medical is very conditional. I've worked with a number of pilots who have histories of high blood pressure, heart disease, heart surgery, etc, who have had such restrictions placed upon them.
A number of factors can affect one's medical, from driving infractions involving intoxication or incapacitation, to kidney conditions, asthma, prescription medications, mental issues (including depression), any use of psychotropic or mood altering drugs, and so forth. Any time a flag comes up, it can cause all kinds of headaches down the line, and can become very expensive, depending on what is wrong, perceived to be wrong, or even misunderstood to be wrong. With the medicals on computer now, checking the wrong box can cause all kinds of headaches, because the computer will note the change and throw up a flag.
I was at one FAA aviation lawyer's presentation and a member of the audience (a "security orificer" at some UK airport) stood up and had a good old rant that they have a UK licensed pilot there who got a heart attack but continued to fly on an FAA license.
Anybody who knows the detail knows this is disingenuous nonsense. The FAA will ground you just the same, and both will let you fly, noncommercially, after various requirements are met, which takes about 6 months. And on renewal medicals it is equally possible to conceal stuff from an FAA or a CAA AME. If somebody has the balls to conceal a heart attack from his AMEs and his GP (which is possible) then all bets are off.
Anybody who knows the detail knows this is disingenuous nonsense. The FAA will ground you just the same, and both will let you fly, noncommercially, after various requirements are met, which takes about 6 months. And on renewal medicals it is equally possible to conceal stuff from an FAA or a CAA AME. If somebody has the balls to conceal a heart attack from his AMEs and his GP (which is possible) then all bets are off.
When the Aviation Medical Examiner performs the exam, he or she must determine that not only does the applicant meet the medical standards at the time of the exam, but can reasonably be expected to do so for the duration of the medical certificate. If the AME has reason to expect that the applicant will not be able to sustain the same level of health during the duration of the certificate, the AME may not issue or approve the medical certificate. For example, if an applicant is healthy and within criteria on the day of examination, but clearly is circling the drain and not likely to remain airworthy for the next X number of months, then the AME will need to defer to higher authority, and cannot issue the certificate.
A change in condition from the health of the applicant on the day he or she applied also means that the applicant may no longer be in conformity with medical standards. If this is the case, the applicant is no longer medically qualified, and the medical certificate is no longer valid.
It's not uncommon for eyesight to deteriorate, particularly with age. An applicant may find a need to wear glasses that arises between visits to the AME. Even though the pilot may have a medical certificate that doesn't have a limitation or waiver for eyesight, the pilot still must wear his glasses in order to meet the medical standards, and therefore have a valid medical.
i pay £120 for combined FAA and JAA Class 1 medicals in the UK. Does not seem that bad to me.
From my experience the FAA class 3 is passable by demonstrating you are breathing.
I don't hold any waivers or limitations on my medical, but I use an AME who does nothing but aviation medicals, and who specializes in helping people obtain medicals. He does a lot of work helping people obtain waivers, get special issuance, and work around issues that are giving them difficulty in obtaining a medical certificate. He charges a little more, and he does a reasonably thorough medical.
My first medical was a third class, and the AME was an eye, ear, nose, and throat specialist. I ended up with a three hour exam, including a glaucoma test, and in the end the AME took my money, and denied the medical. I had asthma, and I had a real problem letting him get near my eyes for the glaucoma test. He's the only AME I've ever been to who did that test, and my vision was perfect. There was no need. After some exchanging of letters with the FAA in Oklahoma City, I was finally awarded a medical with no limitations. The examiner told me that he didn't think I should have a medical, because I had such a hard time letting objects near my eye (I still do; no way I could ever wear contacts), and because my asthma would be a real problem with altitude.
Fortunately the FAA saw it differently. Now, I get first class medicals everytime, time, and I simply check boxes, and write in the remarks "Previously Reported, No Change."
I never went back to that AME again. I have had a couple other AME's over the years that were a little too thorough, and I never returned to them. Personally, for a flight physical, I want the least intrusive exam I can get. If I want a detailed exam, I'll go to a private physician. Many AME's understand this. While the AME is only required to verify that the applicant can hear a whisper, I've had some AME's give me full-blown hearing tests on multiple frequencies. I've had detailed eye exams and color exams.
By comparison, my military physical was less detailed and shorter in length than some visits I've had to the AME, except that the military required a chest x-ray.
One AME I used for several years was also my personal physician. He was the same one that I worked with for a year while recovering from a parachuting injury. He had full knowledge of the extent of my injuries, and wasn't about to grant a medical superfluously.
Conversely, I've had some exams that were little more than a conversation. I know some examiners who have a big following with pilots because that's what they do; they offer quick, easy, very hard to fail exams. They often charge for it, too, and it's all they do. For some physicians, it's a racket. it's unethical, but it happens. Not so for others. The field varies widely, unfortunately.
Back to my original statement, however: there are many individuals out there who don't fly because they can't pass a third class medical. Take away the requirement for the medical certificate, and I know many of these folks would certainly go fly.
I know retired individuals who don't hold a medical. They haven't been denied, but their medicals are expired. If they applied, they probably couldn't get one again. Never the less, under the new Sport Pilot rules, they only need a driver's license (which in most cases in the USA, doesn't require any kind of medical certification--commercial driving is different, and does). Some of these individuals will jump at the chance to go fly. Personally, I'm in favor of requiring a medical certificate, with or without passengers.
In the US, one doesn't need a medical certificate to fly gliders or pilot a hot air balloon. Why not having an engine means one doesn't need to be physically fit and airworthy is something I've never been quite able to grasp, but that's the way it is.
I think the quoted $600 is being used to suit your cause, it's nonsense.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 680
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From: Who cares? ;-)
Quote:
I knew a guy who had a valid medical certificate, had a bi-pass heart operation and thought he could still fly since his medical was still "valid"!
I knew a guy who had a valid medical certificate, had a bi-pass heart operation and thought he could still fly since his medical was still "valid"!
The medical certificate ceases to be valid at any time one does not meet the medical certification standards, without regard to the expiration date on the certificate. This is no different than an airworthiness certificate, which ceases to be valid at any point when the airplane is not airworthy (meaning it's in a safe condition for flight, and meets it's type certification criteria, as amended).
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: Timbuktoo
IMHO the case against the stringent medical for GA is being demonstrated quite nicely on this thread. Given the lack of incidents to date together with the examples of what pilots do and believe to get round the intent of the medical/certificate it is becoming harder to put a case for them.
PS
IO540, don't be taking my comments literally!
PS
IO540, don't be taking my comments literally!
