UK TO Alps Trip
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UK TO Alps Trip
Looking for someone in the UK who is interested in such a trip.Shared Costs ,would like to crunch the numbers aircraft type etc.
SUMMER2011
SUMMER2011
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Alps Trip
I am planning a trip to a strip near Milan next August via the Alps (Simplon Pass) in my Sportcruiser with hopefully a couple of other aircraft, I would be happy to share any info I have so far and to get any info you find out. We are going to the factory that builds the new LSA the trail to have a look. You would be welcome to tag along please get in touch direct
Pete
01932 701321
[email protected]
Pete
01932 701321
[email protected]
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Watch out for the risks inherent to mountain flying, including:
-Rotors, turbulence, higher altitude winds and crosswinds
-Sudden changing weather conditions into solid/icing IMC
-Climb performance. Longer runways will be needed.
-Lack of areas to land in the event of engine failure
-Oxygen
-Terrain
Call me stupid but I somehow don't think a Sportcruiser (a VFR only machine) would be something I'd be willing to use to fly around there...
-Rotors, turbulence, higher altitude winds and crosswinds
-Sudden changing weather conditions into solid/icing IMC
-Climb performance. Longer runways will be needed.
-Lack of areas to land in the event of engine failure
-Oxygen
-Terrain
Call me stupid but I somehow don't think a Sportcruiser (a VFR only machine) would be something I'd be willing to use to fly around there...
Last edited by soaringhigh650; 30th Dec 2010 at 12:01.
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SoaringHigh
I have flown over the Alps numerous times in unpressurised piston twins VFR and IFR.
The IFR trips have required higher levels and the use of oxygen the lower VFR trips were flown at 10-12000 feet.
Some were crossing into Italy some to Slovenia.
You are of course right with your warnings but the trip is perfectly doable in V light aircraft like the sportcruiser if you are very selective on weather and cloudbases especially as you mentioned winds!!!
I have been over the Alps in a variety of weather conditions but would be especially cautious of winds even higher IFR.
The worst turbulence I ever experienced was coming out of Nice IFR in a Citation with severe turbulence forecast between FL 200 and FL300.
The jet was empty with only myself and the co on board.
We had cupboards flung open 45 degree wing drops and the aircraft almost uncontrollable.
I requested an immediate climb to FL340 and sailed up at an incredible 3000 fpm climb all the way up through FL300. Normally in still air the citation climbs at around 1000fpm betwen FL200 and FL300 prob back to 600fpm at FL300.
So yes really do watch the winds the smaller and lighter the aircraft and if conditions are not right dont go
If they are right you will have the most amazing memorable trip especially low level flying over stunning scenery and glaciers not too far below.
Get the weather wrong and it will be a trip from hell.
Pace
I have flown over the Alps numerous times in unpressurised piston twins VFR and IFR.
The IFR trips have required higher levels and the use of oxygen the lower VFR trips were flown at 10-12000 feet.
Some were crossing into Italy some to Slovenia.
You are of course right with your warnings but the trip is perfectly doable in V light aircraft like the sportcruiser if you are very selective on weather and cloudbases especially as you mentioned winds!!!
I have been over the Alps in a variety of weather conditions but would be especially cautious of winds even higher IFR.
The worst turbulence I ever experienced was coming out of Nice IFR in a Citation with severe turbulence forecast between FL 200 and FL300.
The jet was empty with only myself and the co on board.
We had cupboards flung open 45 degree wing drops and the aircraft almost uncontrollable.
I requested an immediate climb to FL340 and sailed up at an incredible 3000 fpm climb all the way up through FL300. Normally in still air the citation climbs at around 1000fpm betwen FL200 and FL300 prob back to 600fpm at FL300.
So yes really do watch the winds the smaller and lighter the aircraft and if conditions are not right dont go
If they are right you will have the most amazing memorable trip especially low level flying over stunning scenery and glaciers not too far below.
Get the weather wrong and it will be a trip from hell.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 30th Dec 2010 at 12:21.
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Hi Pete,
let me and my buddies on the VFR Flight forum at:
Welcome foreign users!
know if you need any help. From the Simplon Pass to Mezzana Bigli, where the Trial is made by Nando Groppo, you have a "small" airport called Malpensa, with quite a bit of class A airspace around it, and a TMA (also class A) above.
Better be sure to know exacly what to do, flying in Italy following all the rules and airspaces requires art and utter dedication...
Flying over the Alps in VFR does not require anything amazing, just some very good planning and good knowledge of mountain flying, and the latest weather conditions and forecasts, obviously.
Ciao, Luca
let me and my buddies on the VFR Flight forum at:
Welcome foreign users!
know if you need any help. From the Simplon Pass to Mezzana Bigli, where the Trial is made by Nando Groppo, you have a "small" airport called Malpensa, with quite a bit of class A airspace around it, and a TMA (also class A) above.
Better be sure to know exacly what to do, flying in Italy following all the rules and airspaces requires art and utter dedication...
Flying over the Alps in VFR does not require anything amazing, just some very good planning and good knowledge of mountain flying, and the latest weather conditions and forecasts, obviously.
Ciao, Luca
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“Call me stupid but I somehow don't think a Sportcruiser (a VFR only machine) would be something I'd be willing to use to fly around there...”
I have toured the Alps in a Pup 150, DR400, C172, AA5B and an MCR. Give me the MCR any day! Uses very little runway, even hot and high, will average over 1000 fpm all the way up to 10,000ft, superb vis to avoid the Gliders and you can run away quick if need be. Given that most UK pilots do not have an IR, all the above aircraft are VFR only anyway (I am IMCR). I hope to be back there again next year, but no dates yet.
Rod1
I have toured the Alps in a Pup 150, DR400, C172, AA5B and an MCR. Give me the MCR any day! Uses very little runway, even hot and high, will average over 1000 fpm all the way up to 10,000ft, superb vis to avoid the Gliders and you can run away quick if need be. Given that most UK pilots do not have an IR, all the above aircraft are VFR only anyway (I am IMCR). I hope to be back there again next year, but no dates yet.
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The Alps
Thanks for the input from everyone even the where all doomed approach. I have flown the Alps a couple of times already VFR and IFR. I will only be doing it if the conditions are right and will have the long way round planned in case the weather is against me.
The sportcruiser is easily able to get to 10000 ft and looking at the Simplon route most of the time you can be well below that and there seem to be airfields on route.
What i am really looking for video or pictures of the Simplon pass route and to know where i can buy a chart with the mountain route on it. I will PM those who have kindl offered help.
Pete
The sportcruiser is easily able to get to 10000 ft and looking at the Simplon route most of the time you can be well below that and there seem to be airfields on route.
What i am really looking for video or pictures of the Simplon pass route and to know where i can buy a chart with the mountain route on it. I will PM those who have kindl offered help.
Pete
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I've flown various routes across the Alps and some can be done a lot lower than others.
I think the "spine" of the Alps can be crossed about 8000ft although the lowest I've ever done was FL129 (just below the FL130 Swiss Class C).
The scenery can be spectacular... some Alps pics here.
Re mountain waves and turbulence issues generally, it is best to do it when there very light winds (evident from the pressure charts). Anyway, operation near an aircraft's operating ceiling needs to be done in light winds because even a slight downdraught, say -100fpm, can noticeably reduce the ceiling (as can warmer than standard temperature).
A lot of what is called "mountain flying" is actually done inside the canyons i.e. not at great altitudes. Relatively few people just fly right across the Alps at 15k or whatever. However, flying in the canyons does require good local knowledge of both the terrain / routes and the weather patterns; Swiss pilots receive appropriate training and their airfields have very good (State funded) weather briefing facilities which show the conditions in the various flyable canyons.
I think the "spine" of the Alps can be crossed about 8000ft although the lowest I've ever done was FL129 (just below the FL130 Swiss Class C).
The scenery can be spectacular... some Alps pics here.
Re mountain waves and turbulence issues generally, it is best to do it when there very light winds (evident from the pressure charts). Anyway, operation near an aircraft's operating ceiling needs to be done in light winds because even a slight downdraught, say -100fpm, can noticeably reduce the ceiling (as can warmer than standard temperature).
A lot of what is called "mountain flying" is actually done inside the canyons i.e. not at great altitudes. Relatively few people just fly right across the Alps at 15k or whatever. However, flying in the canyons does require good local knowledge of both the terrain / routes and the weather patterns; Swiss pilots receive appropriate training and their airfields have very good (State funded) weather briefing facilities which show the conditions in the various flyable canyons.
Last edited by IO540; 30th Dec 2010 at 19:07.
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I've been thinking about the same trip for the last couple of years.
A route through the Aosta valley, with Aosta as a possible stop off (if required) and Biella as a destination looks promising.
I would do a lot of planning and research before I attempted this though.
Family between Aosta and Biella (closer to Biella) make this a preferred route :-)
A route through the Aosta valley, with Aosta as a possible stop off (if required) and Biella as a destination looks promising.
I would do a lot of planning and research before I attempted this though.
Family between Aosta and Biella (closer to Biella) make this a preferred route :-)
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Most of my time in the Alps is spent at 6 – 10k, flying down the valleys and enjoying the scenery. What you can do is very dependent on the mood of the day, but in summer, with light winds, it is normally OK to explore. You do need to keep a very good lookout though as traffic can be a issue, which is why I got interested in Flarm!
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Many UK pilots have flown to Italy in microlights, both flexwing and 3-axis.
and so have even a handful of foreigners !!!
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and so have even a handful of foreigners !!!
Title of thread: UK TO Alps Trip
And since the "hard" part being discussed is the crossing of the Alps, it doesn't really make a difference if a Belgian or a German or a Dutch pilot makes a comment about crossing the Alps, does it?
Happy 2011 everyone, wishing all of you blue skies, or cloudy skies if IR/IMC rated!
Ciao, Luca
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Also, is there an airport called "Alps"? 
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And since the "hard" part being discussed is the crossing of the Alps, it doesn't really make a difference if a Belgian or a German or a Dutch pilot makes a comment about crossing the Alps, does it? 
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Yes Lots of mountain experience.Declared my first emergency south west of Denver at 9500 got lost and socked in with a buddy in thunderstorms.Couldn,t climb any higher downdraft were horrendous.Were saved by flight service who fished in the area and asked about a small dock and he talked us through a gap on the south side of the lake. After we landed the place got pelted with hail.Time builders (oh those were the days).
Still looking for tour buddy's for the Alps.Bring Golf Clubs
Still looking for tour buddy's for the Alps.Bring Golf Clubs
