Flying into Italy
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Flying into Italy
For those who can comprehend the Teutonic, here's a wealth of info by a German living in North-Eastern Italy:
http://www.fliegen-in-italien.de
For one thing, it explains why many places have avgas available but only to locals/club members: Italian regulations seem to allow a tax advantage to such sales. Reading between the lines - which was never my strong point - I seem to imagine it is "often" possible to arrange something, but I can well understand nobody is going to state this publicly. Especially on a place as notorious as this.
http://www.fliegen-in-italien.de
For one thing, it explains why many places have avgas available but only to locals/club members: Italian regulations seem to allow a tax advantage to such sales. Reading between the lines - which was never my strong point - I seem to imagine it is "often" possible to arrange something, but I can well understand nobody is going to state this publicly. Especially on a place as notorious as this.
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I would have to google-translate but, yes, if you can find somebody "agreeable" they will let you fill up, you pay them (cost plus), and they book the fuel to one of the club planes...
It's clearly one of those scenarios where speaking the local language works wonders.
Edit: I now recognise the author, Philipp Tieman. On the flyer forum he wrote that all my hassles in Italy were a load of "hogwash". I then asked him whether he happens to speak Italian. He never replied
Italy is OK if you can contact the airport beforehand and ask the right questions.
It's clearly one of those scenarios where speaking the local language works wonders.
Edit: I now recognise the author, Philipp Tieman. On the flyer forum he wrote that all my hassles in Italy were a load of "hogwash". I then asked him whether he happens to speak Italian. He never replied
Italy is OK if you can contact the airport beforehand and ask the right questions.
Thread Starter
Of course he never replied. He knows the way Italy works, or that's how I understand it, who never flew down there myself. But I did travel there, and I did some little bits of business. The further south, the greater the distance/difference between "what is written" and "how it actually works". One doesn't rely on text; down there, one relies on relations. Surely you knew as much?
PS as I read his page, he has been living in Italy for several years. If he is clever enough to be a pilot, he must have picked up SOME bit of the local language. But he'll never tell how much - to an outsider - get the picture? Clever guy, really, meseems.
PS as I read his page, he has been living in Italy for several years. If he is clever enough to be a pilot, he must have picked up SOME bit of the local language. But he'll never tell how much - to an outsider - get the picture? Clever guy, really, meseems.
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If you are looking for N European type of "corporate behaviour transparency", forget Italy.
This
is from August this year. Despite the notam, a working avgas pump but if you ask about avgas, everybody just gives you a Mona Lisa smile and walks on One person said you have to be an AOPA member.
If you have time on your hands, or if you speak Italian, it's a lovely place. If you want predictability, and avgas, stick to a certain few airports.
This
is from August this year. Despite the notam, a working avgas pump but if you ask about avgas, everybody just gives you a Mona Lisa smile and walks on
One person said you have to be an AOPA member.If you have time on your hands, or if you speak Italian, it's a lovely place. If you want predictability, and avgas, stick to a certain few airports.
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Originally Posted by IO540
Italy is OK if you can contact the airport beforehand and ask the right questions.
I think one should need to spend few hours reading "Simple English" Wikipedia to learn how to communicate with those Italians who actualy speak English I once made an enquiry about a fuel price and availability at certain airport in Italy over the phone (because they were so responsive over the e-mail, you know) and after 10 minutes of three English words he knew (hello, yes, no), I made an educated guess that he didn't understand a thing, so I refuelled outside of Italy and stayed on the safe/wet side
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Nothing to do with avgas availability, but Point to Point will make interesting reading to anybody planning to fly in Italy.
http://www.avioportolano.it/downloads.php?cat_id=2
http://www.avioportolano.it/downloads.php?cat_id=2
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That's a very nice guide, patowalker 
From the flying POV, probably useful for the airport contact details although, being dated 2006, a lot of that will have changed.
I guess Italy is great for a low level microlight flyer, flying on mogas.
From the flying POV, probably useful for the airport contact details although, being dated 2006, a lot of that will have changed.
I guess Italy is great for a low level microlight flyer, flying on mogas.
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Who intends flying to Italy and requires information may want to post in the forum VFRFlight forum | Aviazione Generale, VDS, Ultraleggeri - Index in the "Welcome foreign users!" section.
Somebody is always willing to help.
Italy can be difficult even for local pilots but the scenery and the food is worth it.
Somebody is always willing to help.
Italy can be difficult even for local pilots but the scenery and the food is worth it.
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I agree too, though Croatia and Slovenia are just as (more, I would say) beautiful, and flying there is a pleasure, with none of the hassles mentioned. Been there many times. The food is excellent mediterranean stuff - the best
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@AfricanEagle: that is a great link indeed, bookmarked! If ever I manage the grand expedition across the English Channel (AND back), my next ambition is Italy, so either I get lost in the waves or you're bound to hear from me down there! Grazie mille!
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Italy might be the only country that decided that building and buying their own Italo-Cessnas for national flying clubs, I assume with tax money, made sense!
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The Partenavia P66C may look like a Cessna but it is a very different aeroplane.
Only thing in common is the 160hp engine found on the C172N.
It is slightly faster, more nervous, higher stall speed, less cabin space, certified for limited acros (loops, rolls). A good initial trainer.
I soloed in a P66C
Only thing in common is the 160hp engine found on the C172N.
It is slightly faster, more nervous, higher stall speed, less cabin space, certified for limited acros (loops, rolls). A good initial trainer.
I soloed in a P66C
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Let me also add that the P66 is the "uncle" of the much more famous P92 from Tecnam. Partenavia basically dissolved and was rebuilt again under the Tecnam name.
P92 is the modern P66, as you will always find it as a basic trainer in the many microlight/LSA/ultralight schools throughout the country. But Tecnam is seeing quite a bit of interest in their products around the whole world, including the USA.
There is also a VLA version of the P92, and similarly to what happened with the P66 in the past, some schools have received P92 VLA machines with government funding.
Ciao, Luca
P92 is the modern P66, as you will always find it as a basic trainer in the many microlight/LSA/ultralight schools throughout the country. But Tecnam is seeing quite a bit of interest in their products around the whole world, including the USA.
There is also a VLA version of the P92, and similarly to what happened with the P66 in the past, some schools have received P92 VLA machines with government funding.
Ciao, Luca
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Some expertise from Partenavia went elsewhere, as Vulcanair is a different company that has the rights on the P68 high wing twin.
Still, Tecnam was able to produce a similar yet much more advanced twin using Rotax 100HP engines, the P2006T which I am sure you've seen mentioned in the press.
Next time you're around, give us a shout on the VFRflight.net forum that African Eagle mentioned earlier in this thread. I am sure that we will be able to find a way to get you inside the Tecnam manufacturing facility...
Ciao, Luca
Still, Tecnam was able to produce a similar yet much more advanced twin using Rotax 100HP engines, the P2006T which I am sure you've seen mentioned in the press.
Next time you're around, give us a shout on the VFRflight.net forum that African Eagle mentioned earlier in this thread. I am sure that we will be able to find a way to get you inside the Tecnam manufacturing facility...
Ciao, Luca
Last edited by lucaberta; 9th Dec 2010 at 07:25.
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You are so right, very much below the radar there is a lot of microlight activity. Most small planes right now are in the LSA class, which in Italy is limited to 450kg MTOW (1000 pounds), and that's where the growth is. There is much less GA going on it Italy these days, but still there is some, and they too have moved to the "aviosuperfici", which are licensed airstrips. In most airports landing fees are due, and so GA planes have left airports in a lot of cases, and have migrated to aviosuperfici.
Stupid regulations and poor support of GA have come into effect, and the net result is that a lot of GA activity has moved to microlights. I myself have done exactly this. And I do more "serious" flying when I am in the US and want to exercise my IFR skills or overfly LAX on a C172.
Still, GA is there in Italy, though the numbers are much smaller than they were when I took my PPL 20 years ago. And I have to say to this otherwise my friend African Eagle will punch me in the face next time we meet!
You are more than welcome to take your Luscombe to Italy. There is no problem whatsoever if you only fly from aviosuperfici or uncontrolled airports, thought the latter sometimes have landing fees, yes, even uncontrolled airports can have fees!
Getting in and out of the country is a snap, as Italy is part of the Schengen agreement. You only need an ATC flight plan when crossing the border from France for instance, and that's it. And you can open it and close on the phone, in case you can't have positive radio contact with ATC via the handheld radio.
Glad I could be of some help! Looking forward to meeting you in Italy sometimes!
Ciao, Luca
Stupid regulations and poor support of GA have come into effect, and the net result is that a lot of GA activity has moved to microlights. I myself have done exactly this. And I do more "serious" flying when I am in the US and want to exercise my IFR skills or overfly LAX on a C172.
Still, GA is there in Italy, though the numbers are much smaller than they were when I took my PPL 20 years ago. And I have to say to this otherwise my friend African Eagle will punch me in the face next time we meet!
You are more than welcome to take your Luscombe to Italy. There is no problem whatsoever if you only fly from aviosuperfici or uncontrolled airports, thought the latter sometimes have landing fees, yes, even uncontrolled airports can have fees!
Getting in and out of the country is a snap, as Italy is part of the Schengen agreement. You only need an ATC flight plan when crossing the border from France for instance, and that's it. And you can open it and close on the phone, in case you can't have positive radio contact with ATC via the handheld radio.
Glad I could be of some help! Looking forward to meeting you in Italy sometimes!
Ciao, Luca