Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Reload this Page >

Help needed with Air Law

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

Help needed with Air Law

Old 1st Dec 2010, 16:44
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Help needed with Air Law

I'm studying for my Air Law exam but I promised myself that I'd approach all the exam subjects with the intention of becoming competent and safe rather than just learning to pass the exams - after all, I'm doing this for fun so I want to have the pleasure of a job well done.

Against that background, I need some help with air law. I'm reading the Air Pilot's Guide series. The book talks about various publications which one should familiarise with. Some of them aren't too bad - such as the suggested AIC pinks on subjects like windsheer. But some of the other publications are enormous. Take LASORS, for example - it's 684 pages. Then add things like AIP GEN 1.7 (which I understand sets out differences between ICAO standards and UK standards) - and you could end up reading truly vast amounts of info with lots of detail. Im not daft and in my line of work, I'm pretty good at trawling through documents, but retaining all this stuff is really a bit of a challenge. So, my first question is: how/where do you draw the line?

I've got a second question which is exam-related. I was testing myself on what I've done so far (Aviation law and legislation) from various example questions: some from the Air Pilot's Manual and some from an Oxford CD. In both cases, I come across some questions about which I have seen no coverage at all, which makes me wonder if there's even more stuff I should be reading. An example: Is Jet A-1 a turbine fuel or gasoline? Am I missing something?

Finally, one of the practice questions asked the number of the AIC pink which covers take-off, climb and landing performance in light aircraft. I've read the AIC document, but have you really got to learn mundane stuff like an AIC reference number? I can understand learning the details from the actual pink, but why on earth should we learn the document references?

All help and guidance warmly appreciated.
CharlieDeltaUK is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2010, 16:51
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: EGKH
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I had exactly the same concerns as you before I did my Air Law a couple of weeks ago. I think it's best just to be aware of the pinks in general and I didn't read LASORS or any of the other external docs. A quick word with your instructor should put your mind at rest.

Certainly the exam didn't contain any questions on what doc number something was in (other than JAR-FCL 1/2/3) or detailed questions on the content of those external docs that wasn't covered in the training book (Air Pilot's Manual in my case).

As I've said elsewhere, I found PPL Perfector book to be a very good representation of the exam paper.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Last edited by Kolossi; 1st Dec 2010 at 16:52. Reason: forgot JAR-FCL question!
Kolossi is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2010, 17:05
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here's my opinion on the various documents you mentioned:

LASORS - A well-written ANO, specific for flight crew licensing. LASORS itself does not have any legal value, and there's no equivalent of it in other countries, but it gives a readable overview of what's also in the ANO, but in far more readable format. It contains a number of sections that are not relevant to you at all (CPL, IR, FI, ...) but if you ever wanted to know how to renew your PPL after a seven-year gap (not an uncommon question on here), LASORS has your answer. But for now, I'd just take a look at the structure of LASORS itself, plus a good look at the PPL section and the SEP class rating section, and leave it at that.

AIP - I found that this document was not covered in enough depth in Air Law, or in Flight Preparation for that matter. It's a document which every country produces, and every country uses the same ICAO template. When you go to fly in a foreign country, it's the definitive document on what's different in that country, with the exception of the legal text, which of course may be in a foreign language and thus unreadable. It's well worth having a read of the GEN and ENR sections, but better yet download a few AIPs from different countries and put the GEN and ENR sections next to each other, to see what I mean. And obviously the AD section, which is usually by far the biggest part of the AIP, is only needed if you fly to a specific airport. Still, it makes sense to compare the coverage of a few different airports with each other.

AIC - These documents contain "good advice" from the CAA that more often than not have no basis in any legal text. There are a few that the CAA requires that you are familiar with on the Air Law exam so you'd better be. But other than that the good advice can be found elsewhere as well. If you're really bored they actually form a good read on a rainy Sunday.

One you forgot - POH. Most aircraft (except the really old designs, or the non-certified/experimental ones) will have a POH and this POH is written to an international standard as well. Just as with the AIP, it's well worth getting hold of a few POHs of different aircraft types, and compare their contents. So you know where to look up information like landing distances and other performance figures in case it's ever needed - when preparing a flight for instance...

So, in short, yeah, I think it's very useful to become familiar with the structure of these documents, so you have an idea where to find things. But learning 684 pages of LASORS by heart is daft indeed - particularly since a lot of stuff in there is not related to PPL licensing at all.
BackPacker is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2010, 18:27
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,578
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
As already stated LASORs has no legal status, it is now out of date and is not likely to contain any air law questions.

JAR-FCL is not law either though bits of it have been incorporated into the ANO.

The UK ANO is something you should be familiar with, in particular Schedule 7 which relates to licences and privileges together with a number of essential articles. The ANO is incorporated into CAP393 which also includes the Rules of the Air. Since JAR-FCL was introduced the Air Law syllabus has included totally irrelevant questions on the Chicago Convention often at the expense of more important questions on Rules of the Air.

Regarding the Pink AIC number; I suggest the question is actually looking to see if you can work out from the number given, which is a Safety related AIC. e.g. AIC126/2006 (Pink 110) is clearly a Safety AIC whereas White, Green or Mauve are not.
Whopity is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2010, 13:26
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Luton
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
As already stated LASORs has no legal status, it is now out of date and is not likely to contain any air law questions.

I think a new edition is due out on Monday (6th December). 2010 Edition I believe - why it's not called the 2011 Edition could be a topic for discussion!
Jim59 is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2010, 14:08
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I expect I have said this before in relation to other similar posts; but why not seek help from your instructor?
Captain Jock is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2010, 12:19
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: one dot low as usual
Age: 66
Posts: 536
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
talks about various publications which one should familiarise with

I think this is the point you should be concentrating on. I think it's important that you should be able to know where to find information should you need it rather than have to learn everything parrot fashion.

As most of the content of these publications needs to be known primarily at the planning stage (ie on the ground), I'd say good familiarity with the location of detail is more important than knowing the detail itself.

A quick/speed read through the publications suggested will stand you in good stead for that lightbulb moment in the future "now exactly what was that rule about x/y/z?" Searchable pdf files really are useful in this respect.
Fright Level is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2010, 12:58
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: N.YORKSHIRE
Posts: 887
Received 10 Likes on 5 Posts
An example: Is Jet A-1 a turbine fuel or gasoline? Am I missing something?

Sort them out before you damage your car.
Jet A1 is a reasonable substitute for central heating oil if the tanker can't get through. Don't try it with Gasoline.
Flyingmac is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2010, 13:04
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I hasten to add that the question about Jet A-1 was raised because it seemingly has b***er all to do with aviation law and legislation. Besides I use diesel
CharlieDeltaUK is offline  
Old 6th Dec 2010, 13:15
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: N.YORKSHIRE
Posts: 887
Received 10 Likes on 5 Posts
Just my warped sense of humour. Best of luck with your exams. 90% of it can be safely forgotten after passing.
Flyingmac is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2011, 13:08
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: anglesey
Age: 47
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
air law exam

Thought I'd leave a quick word on my personal experience. Flunked the exam twice so far, having prepared with the air pilot's manual and personal notes. No need to say, I'm going straight to the learn the questions by heart procedure from now on! As far as lasors are concerned, I got a question concerning life jackets over water: Manual says they need to be on the plane. Lasors say they need to be worn, thank you very much you have failed again... There are also discrepancies between aip's and the manual. Did I also mention that the questions are worded in the most mentally twisted way ever?
anyhow, best of luck to all, I've got one try left, third time lucky?
mojo1111 is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2011, 17:03
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Under your circumstances, I would book some time with a Ground School instructor, then take the exam straight after (if he thought you were ready).

Good luck, anyway
24Carrot is offline  
Old 6th Feb 2011, 18:50
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: England
Posts: 660
Received 18 Likes on 11 Posts
MOJO1111

I think that the question to which you refer in your post is this one.

According to a General Aviation Safety Sense leaflet, one of the recommendations for “flight over water” in a single-engined aircraft is?

A. When flying over water, everyone should wear a lifejacket.
B. When flying over water beyond gliding distance from land, lifejackets shall be carried for all occupants.
C. When flying over water beyond gliding distance from land, everyone should wear a lifejacket.
D. When flying over water, lifejackets shall be carried for all occupants.



Safety Sense Leaflet 2 CARE OF PASSENGERS, Section 6 EXTRA PRECAUTIONS OVER WATER states that, Before flying over water in a single-engined aircraft, make sure that passengers are wearinglifejackets, know how to inflate them and how to use any ancillary items, e.g. light, whistle.
Safety Sense Leaflet 21C DITCHING, Section C KNOWLEDGE, states that, “In many cases, the deceased persons did not have lifejackets, either worn or available to them. It is vital TO WEAR a suitable lifejacket whilst flying in a single-engined aircraft over water beyond gliding range from land.
This means that options A and C are both correct in this question, so candidates should make an appeal if this question appears in their examination.


If you go to the website caa.co.uk and do a search for Safety Sense Leaflets you will find these and many more. They contain a lot of very good information.
keith williams is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2011, 06:38
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hampshire
Age: 46
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My own recomendation

1) Jeremy Pratt books. Ensure they are up to date, read them properly, don't progress to the next chapter until you fully understand and can answer the end of chapter answers.

2) When you understand the subject, google 'Air Quiz', get a subscription and take some practice exams. I didn't see any questions from here in an exam, so it is not a question bank and the questions are generally harder than the real thing; this makes you go back and learn more.

3) Now you know the subject, you can improve you confidence before the test by taking a few papers from the confuser... Edition I have is 2008 and I don't recall seeing any questions replicated exactly in the exams, but it gives you a feel for the format (and tricky wording!!). Having done steps one and two you ought to be scoring very high percentages by this point...

4) Sit the exam... you'll probably walk it

Good luck! Hope it works for you.

Last edited by Whiskey Bravo; 8th Feb 2011 at 06:40. Reason: poor grammar
Whiskey Bravo is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2011, 09:40
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Age: 67
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The answer is C because "water" could be just a river with no risk. Outside gliding range is obviously the issue...

My 2c
moreflaps is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2011, 13:22
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: England
Age: 34
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I used the PPL Perfector and passed all of the exams at first attempt with scores in the 90s.
JamieCoul is offline  
Old 8th Feb 2011, 21:00
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
With all the external references you need to know where/what they are, which reference book (LASORS, AIP) to reference what info.
Knowing the overall chapters are useful, here in NZ we have Vol 1 -4 for the AIP each one deals with a seperate set of info. In the Air law exam we were allowed to take the AIP into the exam and reference them. i.e. it was testing you as to where to find the info rather than memorising the volumes.

You will need to know stuff by heart, VFR Minima's, airspace restrictions etc...

Also memorise the PART of the CAR you will operate under... this is in the exam, and i got asked it on my flight test,.. at 400 ft ...

You need to WEAR Life Jackets if you proceed beyond gliding range of land, if you operate 50NM from land, you need life jackets for each PAX AND a Life Raft capable of taking said PAX.

You will need to know fuel types and colours for the Air tech exam andwhat they taste like,.... i prefer my AVTUR with a splash of orange.
FlyingKiwi_73 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.