US AOPA - why pilots drop out
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I agree with everything that's been said here, but I would add a couple of things:
Too bloody hard and too many obstacles.
Poor students are being lured into flight schools thinking they can do it in 45hrs, when in fact it's going to take 70 more likely. The syllabus for PPL has just grown exponentially over the years and today just too much is asked of new students. Sure we want to be safe, but 20 years ago 40hrs was enough - they didn't fall out of the sky more then. So what's changed?
And why on earth do we need a medical at all? Give me one valid reason. Unless the medical profession suddenly developed a way to predict heart attacks...
Too bloody hard and too many obstacles.
Poor students are being lured into flight schools thinking they can do it in 45hrs, when in fact it's going to take 70 more likely. The syllabus for PPL has just grown exponentially over the years and today just too much is asked of new students. Sure we want to be safe, but 20 years ago 40hrs was enough - they didn't fall out of the sky more then. So what's changed?
And why on earth do we need a medical at all? Give me one valid reason. Unless the medical profession suddenly developed a way to predict heart attacks...
IO540
Green arguments never wash. My Mooney will do between 23 and 28 mpg at 140 kt TAS in a straight line. But that is only half the story. If you use GE or some other navigator and calculate the actual ground distance a car would use vs the air distance you use by plane, that factor can be up to 2.
So let's say from A to B is 500 km road distance over a mixed motorway/country lane environment, you will need 4-5 hours and burn some 45 to 50 liters doing it. Do it by air, the air distance will be around 300 km or less, giving me a flight time of around 1-10 to 1-15 and a burn off of around 30-35 liters @ economy cruise.
My TB20 does a similar MPG (15-20) at 150kt TAS to a 4x4 going along the motorway at 70mph. That's not bad, considering no car ever made will do even half my MPG at 172mph. The green anti-GA argument just doesn't wash at all.
So let's say from A to B is 500 km road distance over a mixed motorway/country lane environment, you will need 4-5 hours and burn some 45 to 50 liters doing it. Do it by air, the air distance will be around 300 km or less, giving me a flight time of around 1-10 to 1-15 and a burn off of around 30-35 liters @ economy cruise.
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Sure we want to be safe, but 20 years ago 40hrs was enough - they didn't fall out of the sky more then. So what's changed?
).
And why on earth do we need a medical at all? Give me one valid reason. Unless the medical profession suddenly developed a way to predict heart attacks...
- vested interests
One can sure moan about ICAO but I bet you that without ICAO there would be no private GA, except in a few places where civil liberties are a basic assumption (America), where there is no regulation, or bribery is a way of life (Africa), or where there has been a continuous private aviation tradition since 1910 (UK, Germany, France... any offers?).
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SoCal App's last post made me think, there must be at least two student groups.
The younger ones who want to earn a living flying. If they start at all, I suppose they would be pretty motivated, spending borrowed money. And the PPL is just a stepping stone.
The older ones who already earn a living doing something else, and regard the whole PPL thing as discretionary spending on a leisure activity. Perfectly ready to try fly-fishing or Harleys if the flying doesn't work out.
Addressing the drop-out rate has to recognise the difference between the groups.
The younger ones who want to earn a living flying. If they start at all, I suppose they would be pretty motivated, spending borrowed money. And the PPL is just a stepping stone.
The older ones who already earn a living doing something else, and regard the whole PPL thing as discretionary spending on a leisure activity. Perfectly ready to try fly-fishing or Harleys if the flying doesn't work out.
Addressing the drop-out rate has to recognise the difference between the groups.
PPL Why Bother
Have just seen part of a BBC ONE "Countryfile" program where Julia Bradbury pitches up at the Chiltern Air Park and is taken up in a "Microlight" (Dynamic WT9) that looked more like Spocks personal transport than an aeronautical effort from scapheap challenge.
Guess what ; No yellow jackets,no suitcase of good knows what,no security fences and machine gun posts,no dressing up and being told how it is all under very strict control,no endless radio chatter and gobblygook,no one suggesting it was difficult and if the engine stops etc etc.Several million viewers on prime time national TV saw someone they know quite well stroll out on a tidy green field sit themselves down in a very smart machine and have a great time and that was before the pilot said he might pop down to the Isle of Wight for a cuppa.
Guess who will be getting the phone calls tomorrow (it was so obvious they were "enjoying" themselves and thats the difference)
Pobjoy
Guess what ; No yellow jackets,no suitcase of good knows what,no security fences and machine gun posts,no dressing up and being told how it is all under very strict control,no endless radio chatter and gobblygook,no one suggesting it was difficult and if the engine stops etc etc.Several million viewers on prime time national TV saw someone they know quite well stroll out on a tidy green field sit themselves down in a very smart machine and have a great time and that was before the pilot said he might pop down to the Isle of Wight for a cuppa.
Guess who will be getting the phone calls tomorrow (it was so obvious they were "enjoying" themselves and thats the difference)
Pobjoy
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I agree that it was a great advert for flying, and for microlighting in particular. Just a shame that with Julia and her weighty pilot on board they probably only had enough (legal) fuel for a couple of circuits.
Microlight Payload
The basic payload on these machines is approx 200 kg, but i always consider them as "good" single seaters, as in all fairness they are built down to a weight limit.
However the performance and low fuel burn is quite impressive and there is the added health benefit of keeping everyones weight down.
Time will be the judge of durability and value's but i bet there will be no lack of enthusiasts going to the NEC soon to see whats on offer for the future.
Running costs are the big factor when decision time comes along and i can see the attraction of this new breed of high tech "fun" flyers that operate on mogas and that is before the airframe and engine AD's factor for the ageing GA fleet is taken into account.
I know its not anybodies fault "due to cost" but if you look at the UK training fleet it has not really changed for 40 years and portrays a rather tired image as does the average premises.
However the performance and low fuel burn is quite impressive and there is the added health benefit of keeping everyones weight down.
Time will be the judge of durability and value's but i bet there will be no lack of enthusiasts going to the NEC soon to see whats on offer for the future.
Running costs are the big factor when decision time comes along and i can see the attraction of this new breed of high tech "fun" flyers that operate on mogas and that is before the airframe and engine AD's factor for the ageing GA fleet is taken into account.
I know its not anybodies fault "due to cost" but if you look at the UK training fleet it has not really changed for 40 years and portrays a rather tired image as does the average premises.
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Looking around where I am based, over the past 10 years, the big problem with setting up a "nice" shop is that there will always be somebody willing to sit in a tatty leaking portacabin, 9am to 7pm, with a phone next to them, waiting for it to ring from somebody who wants a pleasure flight (a "trial lesson" 
) and willing to do this for nothing.
These people will always undercut you.
They go bust every 1-2 years, doing a lot of damage by vanishing with student deposits, but there isn't much one can do about it. I know the airport started putting a clause in all new leases to ban the operation of a flying club, to try to cut down the number of these short-lived businesses, but I don't know how long that lasted. Somebody said it was an illegal restriction...
At one stage there were EIGHT fixed wing training operations there.
) and willing to do this for nothing.These people will always undercut you.
They go bust every 1-2 years, doing a lot of damage by vanishing with student deposits, but there isn't much one can do about it. I know the airport started putting a clause in all new leases to ban the operation of a flying club, to try to cut down the number of these short-lived businesses, but I don't know how long that lasted. Somebody said it was an illegal restriction...
At one stage there were EIGHT fixed wing training operations there.
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Happy PPL
Sure is a lot of doom and gloom going around in this thread... I wonder if this is a UK thing, the situation over here in SE doesn't seem nearly as bad.
Yes, weather restrictions are a pain in the ass without IR, although despite having 6+ months of mostly unflyable weather each year I know several people at my club using the aircraft for "utility" purposes (eg business or pleasure trips within Sweden+neighbours). Yes, you need to plan ahead. OTOH you always have the car/train/ferry as a fallback.
Trips with mates, same thing. Plan ahead, prepare them for the fact that it might not go ahead as planned if the weather is bad. No big deal, just try again another day. It's the same as with a boat.
Sorry, but being a single guy I would protest the notion that trying to pick up girls would take any sort of precedence over my hobbies. The girls I've taken with me flying (yes, 70's PA28 spamcan) have positively LOVED it. It's not a "chick magnet" but it sure doesn't hurt. All this talk about flying not being socially acceptable makes me thinks you guys are hanging with the wrong crowd. I got nothing but positive remarks from my friends and family when I took up flying.
Cost is certainly an issue and I agree that it's probably the main reason people leave. But for an IFR-capable PA28 with GPS, I pay £90/hr including fuel and landing fees. Hardly a ripoff, going by PA28 is actually cheaper than train+ferry to some domestic locations. Not to mention much faster. And while the club Pipers are old, they are not in any way poorly maintained. Even minor things like an u/s landing light are usually fixed the same day.
Just my €1, flame away...
Yes, weather restrictions are a pain in the ass without IR, although despite having 6+ months of mostly unflyable weather each year I know several people at my club using the aircraft for "utility" purposes (eg business or pleasure trips within Sweden+neighbours). Yes, you need to plan ahead. OTOH you always have the car/train/ferry as a fallback.
Trips with mates, same thing. Plan ahead, prepare them for the fact that it might not go ahead as planned if the weather is bad. No big deal, just try again another day. It's the same as with a boat.
Originally Posted by IO540
the lack of 'scenery' (women) makes it a lousy activity choice for a single bloke, given how time consuming a hobby it is (single men are almost constantly 'looking' and have to choose any time- and money-consuming activites carefully)
Cost is certainly an issue and I agree that it's probably the main reason people leave. But for an IFR-capable PA28 with GPS, I pay £90/hr including fuel and landing fees. Hardly a ripoff, going by PA28 is actually cheaper than train+ferry to some domestic locations. Not to mention much faster. And while the club Pipers are old, they are not in any way poorly maintained. Even minor things like an u/s landing light are usually fixed the same day.
Just my €1, flame away...
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Here's my two-penneth worth - I believe the post licence drop-out rate is due to the pastime not offering value for money and being a bit boring. I can not believe that anybody really wants to pay in excess of £100 to fly a crappy 152 to another airfield, go to a clubhouse with smelly bogs, buy a cup of tea and fly back. The sense of fulfilment is pretty close to zero. So unless you meet someone who can enlighten you, it's only a matter of time before you give up.
The sports pilots appear to last a lot longer. Pulling g, air-racing, rallying, vintage, gyro-coptering, gliding, racing are all pastimes which involve flying but are not the main reasons for doing so. So these people stay longer because they have more to occupy their minds, are part of a community and have a sense of achievement when they progress through there chosen areas of interest.
So if training organisations spent as much time teaching you how to enjoy yourself, maybe people would stay around a bit longer?
PM
The sports pilots appear to last a lot longer. Pulling g, air-racing, rallying, vintage, gyro-coptering, gliding, racing are all pastimes which involve flying but are not the main reasons for doing so. So these people stay longer because they have more to occupy their minds, are part of a community and have a sense of achievement when they progress through there chosen areas of interest.
So if training organisations spent as much time teaching you how to enjoy yourself, maybe people would stay around a bit longer?
PM
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The sports pilots appear to last a lot longer. Pulling g, air-racing, rallying, vintage, gyro-coptering, gliding, racing are all pastimes which involve flying but are not the main reasons for doing so. So these people stay longer because they have more to occupy their minds, are part of a community and have a sense of achievement when they progress through there chosen areas of interest.
Also, I know some of them and to a man they are the sort who like to tinker with hardware. They are the sort of people who keep old cars which they fix themselves. It is a very different population to spamcan renters, most of whom know nothing about the aircraft and don't really want to (which is why they are renters, generally).
Ownership is a key motivating factor. In the certified scene, very few people who own a plane give up. They tend to give up only when they lose their medicals. And, to look at things in reverse, almost everybody with an IR and almost everybody who does long distance touring is an owner.
I can not believe that anybody really wants to pay in excess of £100 to fly a crappy 152 to another airfield, go to a clubhouse with smelly bogs, buy a cup of tea and fly back.
I can't speak for others but there are several (grass) airfields within 20 mins' flying time from where I am based, but I have never flown to any of them. Why not? I can drive there in less time... The trick is to find more interesting stuff to do with one's flying. N France is accessible for most southern UK pilots, and the straight utility value totally beats alternative transport. I also do much longer trips (Greece, etc) and they are really interesting but they need a more capable plane.
Last edited by IO540; 15th Nov 2010 at 11:19.
Dropping out or Dropping in
Back in the mists of time ( 60's) i used to escape occaisionally from ATC gliding and go over to Biggin to take in the power scene.
In those days it was really buzzing with all sorts of clubs using a very diverse assortment of machines from T/Moths,Austers,Chipmunks, Condors, through to the fairly new trikes from Piper, Cessna, Beagle and Rallye.
Another rather quaint factor was the communal meeting place "Dillows" that seemed to be the hub of all things at Biggin.
It was a very friendly place and certainly encouraged people to get involved at whatever level you could afford.
The "Damascus" point for me was being there when a RF3 pottered along the taxiway having flown in from France.
Coming from a gliding background it immediatley struck a chord of interest that was only increased when i found it had the same engine as my 1200 VW Beetle.
A few weeks later i was there in the early evening when a Turbulent arrived from France and the driver(complete with lifejacket) ran over to control to do the "Customs" thing.
I wandered over to have a closer look at this fine machine (i knew they had VW engines) when the pilot arrived back jumped in and after a brief exchange of information said he had to get off (for Redhill)before it got dark.
With that he pulled the recoil starter and promptly took off across the taxiway and turned left for home.
That was it for me, i now had a goal and within a few years i was happily zipping around (non radio) in my own Turb with a huge grin.
Why; well i had the reason,it was affordable,the airfields were friendly and the whole thing was FUN!!!
Pobjoy
In those days it was really buzzing with all sorts of clubs using a very diverse assortment of machines from T/Moths,Austers,Chipmunks, Condors, through to the fairly new trikes from Piper, Cessna, Beagle and Rallye.
Another rather quaint factor was the communal meeting place "Dillows" that seemed to be the hub of all things at Biggin.
It was a very friendly place and certainly encouraged people to get involved at whatever level you could afford.
The "Damascus" point for me was being there when a RF3 pottered along the taxiway having flown in from France.
Coming from a gliding background it immediatley struck a chord of interest that was only increased when i found it had the same engine as my 1200 VW Beetle.
A few weeks later i was there in the early evening when a Turbulent arrived from France and the driver(complete with lifejacket) ran over to control to do the "Customs" thing.
I wandered over to have a closer look at this fine machine (i knew they had VW engines) when the pilot arrived back jumped in and after a brief exchange of information said he had to get off (for Redhill)before it got dark.
With that he pulled the recoil starter and promptly took off across the taxiway and turned left for home.
That was it for me, i now had a goal and within a few years i was happily zipping around (non radio) in my own Turb with a huge grin.
Why; well i had the reason,it was affordable,the airfields were friendly and the whole thing was FUN!!!
Pobjoy
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Sure is a lot of doom and gloom going around in this thread... I wonder if this is a UK thing, the situation over here in SE doesn't seem nearly as bad.
Yes, weather restrictions are a pain in the ass without IR, although despite having 6+ months of mostly unflyable weather each year I know several people at my club using the aircraft for "utility" purposes (eg business or pleasure trips within Sweden+neighbours). Yes, you need to plan ahead. OTOH you always have the car/train/ferry as a fallback.
Trips with mates, same thing. Plan ahead, prepare them for the fact that it might not go ahead as planned if the weather is bad. No big deal, just try again another day. It's the same as with a boat.
Sorry, but being a single guy I would protest the notion that trying to pick up girls would take any sort of precedence over my hobbies. The girls I've taken with me flying (yes, 70's PA28 spamcan) have positively LOVED it. It's not a "chick magnet" but it sure doesn't hurt. All this talk about flying not being socially acceptable makes me thinks you guys are hanging with the wrong crowd. I got nothing but positive remarks from my friends and family when I took up flying.
Cost is certainly an issue and I agree that it's probably the main reason people leave. But for an IFR-capable PA28 with GPS, I pay £90/hr including fuel and landing fees. Hardly a ripoff, going by PA28 is actually cheaper than train+ferry to some domestic locations. Not to mention much faster. And while the club Pipers are old, they are not in any way poorly maintained. Even minor things like an u/s landing light are usually fixed the same day.
Yes, weather restrictions are a pain in the ass without IR, although despite having 6+ months of mostly unflyable weather each year I know several people at my club using the aircraft for "utility" purposes (eg business or pleasure trips within Sweden+neighbours). Yes, you need to plan ahead. OTOH you always have the car/train/ferry as a fallback.
Trips with mates, same thing. Plan ahead, prepare them for the fact that it might not go ahead as planned if the weather is bad. No big deal, just try again another day. It's the same as with a boat.
Sorry, but being a single guy I would protest the notion that trying to pick up girls would take any sort of precedence over my hobbies. The girls I've taken with me flying (yes, 70's PA28 spamcan) have positively LOVED it. It's not a "chick magnet" but it sure doesn't hurt. All this talk about flying not being socially acceptable makes me thinks you guys are hanging with the wrong crowd. I got nothing but positive remarks from my friends and family when I took up flying.
Cost is certainly an issue and I agree that it's probably the main reason people leave. But for an IFR-capable PA28 with GPS, I pay £90/hr including fuel and landing fees. Hardly a ripoff, going by PA28 is actually cheaper than train+ferry to some domestic locations. Not to mention much faster. And while the club Pipers are old, they are not in any way poorly maintained. Even minor things like an u/s landing light are usually fixed the same day.
Well, I got my PPL in Sweden in the early 90's and flying there was always pretty straightforward. The thing with all northern hemisphere (western) countries, like Canada and the nordic ones, is that they rely to great extent on aviation to fulfill basic transportation needs. Combine this with a GA scene that's small enough to "fly under the radar" and generally you have a pretty good and accessible flying environment. This is certainly true in Sweden and from what I hear in Norway, Finland and Canada as well. You don't have to venture far south for the troubles to begin - Denmark being a case in point.
And for the rest of Europe - where everyone lives on top of each other and have no basic need for aviation smaller than the charter taking them to the next all inclusive southern resort - this is very tangible. Want to plop down on a lake with a Lake (see, I made joke) in Sweden, Norway, Finland or Canada? Go right ahead, no need to ask. Try doing that anywhere else in Europe and it's most likely prohibited or such a rigmarole that anyone would be insane to try to attempt getting proper permission. And the list goes on and on with similar examples.
I'm actually looking as I write this on a sectional VFR chart of southern Sweden and there's pretty much nothing but G airspace everywhere with the odd exception for some C around bigger airports. I have issues with Sweden when it comes to bureaucracy in other fields (hence why I moved), but aviation there is admirably straightforward and user friendly.
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 15th Nov 2010 at 22:34.
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Hey, IO540, if you do set foot into ZRH again before the curtain falls (we are still trying to fight that, otherwise that will be april 1, 2011, no joke) I believe we should meet and talk over a few mugs of the yellow foamy stuff 
I think it might be fun to talk to people who speak your language from a time to time, ah well, that is what we are here for as well....
I think it might be fun to talk to people who speak your language from a time to time, ah well, that is what we are here for as well....
Plus the fees are cheaper and the scenery much nicer
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Just looked up LSGT.
It has no instrument approaches, so no way I can get in there
But hey it does have Customs (on PPR) so that's a start
It has some interesting terrain around... I would have to fly there at FL150 and then do a descending orbit all the way down
Actually I know a pilot who used to fly cargo 707s into Kabul that way - an orbit from FL350 all the way down.
Anyway, yes, I am up for this. Especially after today; cancelled a flight because of a lot of OVC003/300m around, either actual or forecast or both. But absolutely perfect for IFR because all the muck is low down.
It has no instrument approaches, so no way I can get in there
But hey it does have Customs (on PPR) so that's a start
It has some interesting terrain around... I would have to fly there at FL150 and then do a descending orbit all the way down
Actually I know a pilot who used to fly cargo 707s into Kabul that way - an orbit from FL350 all the way down.
Anyway, yes, I am up for this. Especially after today; cancelled a flight because of a lot of OVC003/300m around, either actual or forecast or both. But absolutely perfect for IFR because all the muck is low down.
Can we make that Ecuvillence or Lausanne? I do prefer hard surface runways to swamp in this season.
Re the drop out rate and ownership:
I tried club and rental but it was never for me. Main issues were not old and worn out planes, the Swiss FOCA would never let something like that fly, but primarily availability, penalties for all sorts of things such as being back a few minutes late, having to pay even if i did not fly (on longer trips) and so on. Bought my first plane (2seater) immediately after having my PPL. The only rentals I used since were for training (PASE) and I did rent my current Mooney before I bought it in a kind of a try before buy deal.
Ownership however takes a lot of stamina these days, and not only financial.
My own becoming an owner again rose some eyebrows in the local community, my laying open some of the details even more. I published a lenghty forum message on "affordable planes" and got swamped with questions and request for help. NONE of the ones who did talk to me then are owners now.
Why?
One who really liked the idea was mentally beaten over the head by just about the WHOLE flight school environment plus the whole club gang where he pays to learn the trade. "Who the hell do you think you are to even think of the travesty of owning your own plane?" "Never mind it costs less than a 1970 Capri, you'll NEVER be able to afford the costs, and anyway who are you, a measly student..... " went on and on. Heck, the guy could have gotten a PA28-140, nice avionics, half time engine, for an absolute pittance, had a great time and travel all over Europe with it for very few money.
There are folks who have stopped talking to me since I came open about owning a plane, it just "isn't done". Dont'cha know that unless you're Michael Schuhmacher or the likes you don't have the social standing to own a plane?
Gosh, these envy mongers, I'd sometimes would love to give them a good kick up their green with envy noses. And what the heck are they jealous about? It's not a Citation, not a biz wiz jet nor a Boeing 707, nor a private A380 with private whirlpools. And when I go fly someplace, I don't alight at the Ritz Carlton, thank you very much, I need that cash for fuel!
I'd really like those people to overcome their socially depraved prejudices and accept the truth when it dances in front of their faces. All they need to do is to visit planecheck or avbuyer to see what can be had for how much money, even if they don't know that those prices are about as realistic as the asking prices for anything upwards of a second hand Volkswagen.
I'd just hope that some more folks finally take their courage out of their front pockets and just make owning a plane as normal as owning your car. Would do a lot for our rep. Until then, let me put my 4 stripes left and right so the security guard will let me out to my plane
Re the drop out rate and ownership:
I tried club and rental but it was never for me. Main issues were not old and worn out planes, the Swiss FOCA would never let something like that fly, but primarily availability, penalties for all sorts of things such as being back a few minutes late, having to pay even if i did not fly (on longer trips) and so on. Bought my first plane (2seater) immediately after having my PPL. The only rentals I used since were for training (PASE) and I did rent my current Mooney before I bought it in a kind of a try before buy deal.
Ownership however takes a lot of stamina these days, and not only financial.
My own becoming an owner again rose some eyebrows in the local community, my laying open some of the details even more. I published a lenghty forum message on "affordable planes" and got swamped with questions and request for help. NONE of the ones who did talk to me then are owners now.
Why?
One who really liked the idea was mentally beaten over the head by just about the WHOLE flight school environment plus the whole club gang where he pays to learn the trade. "Who the hell do you think you are to even think of the travesty of owning your own plane?" "Never mind it costs less than a 1970 Capri, you'll NEVER be able to afford the costs, and anyway who are you, a measly student..... " went on and on. Heck, the guy could have gotten a PA28-140, nice avionics, half time engine, for an absolute pittance, had a great time and travel all over Europe with it for very few money.
There are folks who have stopped talking to me since I came open about owning a plane, it just "isn't done". Dont'cha know that unless you're Michael Schuhmacher or the likes you don't have the social standing to own a plane?
Gosh, these envy mongers, I'd sometimes would love to give them a good kick up their green with envy noses. And what the heck are they jealous about? It's not a Citation, not a biz wiz jet nor a Boeing 707, nor a private A380 with private whirlpools. And when I go fly someplace, I don't alight at the Ritz Carlton, thank you very much, I need that cash for fuel!
I'd really like those people to overcome their socially depraved prejudices and accept the truth when it dances in front of their faces. All they need to do is to visit planecheck or avbuyer to see what can be had for how much money, even if they don't know that those prices are about as realistic as the asking prices for anything upwards of a second hand Volkswagen.
I'd just hope that some more folks finally take their courage out of their front pockets and just make owning a plane as normal as owning your car. Would do a lot for our rep. Until then, let me put my 4 stripes left and right so the security guard will let me out to my plane
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I too recall a lot of "lack of assistance with information" when I started looking for a plane, so I would no longer be renting.
Of course they could not stop me; once I had the do$h together I was simply going to buy the thing.
But no more invitations to "club" fly-outs.
I have written this before but a major thing to help people grind through the PPL, and then to help people who have the PPL but are not sure what to do with it, would be allowing experienced owner-pilots to hang around the school/club.
I have discussed this with some school owners in the past. Schools don't like this because
- the pilots would end up acting as mentors, and usurp the instructors' superior authority and knowledge (we need an icon for sarcasm here...). Mentoring is a very tricky topic... ask AOPA
- the pilots would end up getting cost sharing contributions from students/PPLs they fly with, when these students/PPLs ought to be spending all their spare money at the school, having lessons, etc (the fact that if you fly say 20hrs with a "mentor" you might do your PPL in 45hrs instead of 65hrs is of no interest to the school).
- one would need to provide extra space, for flight planning, internet access, etc... gosh maybe even a Jeppview 3 subscription
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AdamFrisch, thanks for sharing your experiences. Your post adresses the regulation issues but other people in the thread have also mentioned things like other people's enviousness and disapproval towards airplane ownership or flying in general, tight-a*sed flying clubs making you pay if you show up a bit late, etc. It simply doesn't seem to be that way here. Maybe I've just been lucky so far.
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One reason that flying lost an interest to me is that I lacked any idea of what to do. Great you can fly to exotic locations but flying to place to place just to get a bacon butty can only be done so many times.
I enjoyed learning because there is an objective and others are involved, you are part of a structure, a system. I subsequently enjoyed flying all over Europe but the fact of the matter is that you are very limited just what to do with it!
I bought a number of aircraft, each 'better' than the previous one, in search of what it was all about but to be honest I had the best time with my first, an X-Air microlight, where I could just wheel it out and bumble around, little cost and fun flying, land almost anywhere etc.
If I had the money now I would get another three axis microlight and search for the fun I had at the beginning and forget all the 'serious' stuff.
I enjoyed learning because there is an objective and others are involved, you are part of a structure, a system. I subsequently enjoyed flying all over Europe but the fact of the matter is that you are very limited just what to do with it!
I bought a number of aircraft, each 'better' than the previous one, in search of what it was all about but to be honest I had the best time with my first, an X-Air microlight, where I could just wheel it out and bumble around, little cost and fun flying, land almost anywhere etc.
If I had the money now I would get another three axis microlight and search for the fun I had at the beginning and forget all the 'serious' stuff.
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What was your last "serious" plane, Funfly?
I do know of pilots who went quite a long way and then gave up.
Of those who got at least an IR, one gave up after a TB20 (though I suspect he hit hard times financially) and another gave up after working his way up to a twin turboprop (he declared that he got sick of "running an airline").
I think a fair few VFR-only owners give up for "getting fed up" reasons, but not so many IFR pilots do that.
I do know of pilots who went quite a long way and then gave up.
Of those who got at least an IR, one gave up after a TB20 (though I suspect he hit hard times financially) and another gave up after working his way up to a twin turboprop (he declared that he got sick of "running an airline").
I think a fair few VFR-only owners give up for "getting fed up" reasons, but not so many IFR pilots do that.
Last edited by IO540; 16th Nov 2010 at 17:32.