PPL and Flight Sim

[Slopey]

Yep - if you don't have a TrackIR, get one. You'll never "fly" without it once you've used it.

I have a 3x24" widescreen setup using an Eyefinity card (avoid the Matrox Triplehead2Go these days as they're now obsolete effectively), and with the TrackIR it's a pretty decent simulation. I have both FSX and X-Plane.

FSX is a better "sim" for the heavies and procedural stuff and has a better software/add-on base/more available scenery.

X-Plane is better in that it has non-level runways and a different (but not necessarily more realistic) flight dynamic. The downside of X-Plane is that it's an eye-popping 100Gb install for world wide coverage and the default aircraft are of poor quality. However, the recent Carenado X-Plane releases knock spots off the FSX versions, so it's very much swings and roundabouts.

I've always been into flight sims since the days of my Apple II and ZX Spectrum - didn't find it a hinderance when I learned to fly and was never guilty of "head in the panel" syndrome.

These days, I fly purely VFR/Low level in the sim but don't equate it to the real world. It's a complementary hobby in the same vein rather than a learning/currency tool.

However, the sims are excellent for instrument practice as I'm finding with the IMC coursework.

(If anyone is bored going from A to B at random in FS and needs some structure under the guise of hauling cargo, go check out AirHauler by Just Flight )

[KembleKid]

While we're on the subject of add-on flight sim H/W, I also use some of the Saitek Pro Flight panels in addition to TrackIR. I've got a stack of 3 panels - switch panel, multi-function & radio. I can highly recommend these, but don't use the supplied Saitek drivers - they're rubbish. Insead, get the 'SPAD' drivers, available free from here : Tools for Flight Simulator - Home of the SPAD - Home

Having real switches to click and knobs to turn saves all the fiddling around with key strokes and mouse clicks.

The radio and multi-function panels were immensely useful when I was training for the IMCR.

[The500man]

This is where it all began for me: F29 Retaliator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Never learned to land it though since you could just bail out over the airfield to complete the missions!

I did buy Falcon 4.0 on PC much much later and never had a clue how to fly it, much like the military aircraft on FSX (if you can work out how to start the engine without the manual, you'll probably be doing better than me!)

I used FSX with a vfr scenery add-on and later added vfr airfields, when I was training. As some other people have suggested it was most useful for navigation rather than handling, though if you plan flights like I do, you'll frequently discover the absence of masts, pylons, towers etc.

It would be a lot better in full 3d. The other thing I noticed was the poor depth of field. Even with high settings, I can get crisp scenery to the horizon but it isn't particularly distinguishable as what it is until much closer, when it is under the nose and all but useless. They're my major gripes with it.

I downloaded a C152 model which was really quite good. I think it was justflight or maybe from the flying school software. It was a free download! It doesn't have a very good radio stack though so no DME like the C152's I used to train in. Made life a bit more difficult.

I can see FSX being much more helpful for instrument flying, and for me I found it helpful for remembering procedures. One of my instructors used to accuse me of just fudging each flight rather than following set procedure, so I started using FSX as an upgrade to mental armchair flying.

[Pace]

The biggest problem I see for FSX is that MS dropped the development of the sim. Like others before it technology advances and leaves those sims behind.
Ok there is a development industry of addons still attached to MSFS but it really needed a complete re write.
Loaded or on slower computers the sim struggled with stutters and freeze ups.
Like previous sims, Pro Pilot, Fly! and flight unlimited (which prob was the most immersive sim) MSFS will become very dated.
X plane which I never had is still in production so has to be the one for the future until something better comes out.
I have been out of the loop on these sims for 4 years so maybe I have it wrong but they were excellent for working out NDB tracking etc at your leisure in the comfort of your home rather than in an expensive aircraft.
Not a lot has changed as before they were best on autopilot for instrument flying but very unrealistic in the flight dynamics arena.
Periferal views were awful looking at a rectangular screen with pop up windows for sub panels.
Maybe the PC isnt the way ahead but for me the best real deal was always Flight unlimited even if the graphics were so dated.

Pace

[Slopey]

Microsoft are back in the Flight Sim game, their next product, "Flight" is under active development - we'll need to wait and see what the plans are for that and if existing add-ons are compatible, if not, you can bet the developers will be very keen to support the new product.

[Pace]

Slopey

Shows how out of the loop I am last i knew the whole development team had been disbanded and the product shelved!
That all started with 9/11 and claims that the terrorists had used MSFS as a training tool.
MS had such bad publicity that it all eventually lead to the product being dropped a few years later.
Am glad its all back on again for the FS world.
I really hope existing addons are NOT compatable as compatability with previous sims has held the sim back.
It needs a clean slate re launch embracing latest technology not backward compatability but hey ho a bit of tweaking here and there with claims of a new sim has been the name of the game since its inception?

Pace

[gingernut]

Initially had to "unlearn" quite a lot of the stuff from Microsoft Flight Simulator to gain my PPL. Had to learn to look out of the window.

It was quite good nearer the end of the PPL for learning the sequential stuff whilst under real time "pressure" and it was great for the instrument component of the course.

[AN2 Driver]

Pace,

it will eventually become dated but the addon industry does a lot to prolong that process. The primary concern is that FS X is actually no longer for sale. Many in the industry however say that with the very long time that FS X is now on the market and a stable platform (after SP2) it gives developers a much needed time of stability to get their addons right, rather than rushing them from one variant to the next.

Like Windows XP, which is outliving Microsoft's wishes for 2 new windows versions now, FS X will soldier on until something really new that replaces it will appear. And this will most probably not be "Flight!"

Best regards
AN2 Driver

[TRPGpilot]

Flight sim junkie to PPL, almost

I started out on MSFS 2000, then 2002 then 2004 then X,. in all probably over 1000 hours loged. Then I decided to do the PPL. At first a fixation on the instuments as all have said. But once thats out of the way flight sim has helped my progress. I found the "instrument apreciation" a piece of cake and intercepting a tracking a VOR radial was done like I have been doing it for years. If the weather lets up I will have done all my required flying in the 45 hours minimum before my Skills test. Oh did I mention my first flight was in 2004 with gaps of months and even a year or 2 when I didnt fly? Yet thanks to flight sim I am on track to complete my PPL training spanning 6 years very close to the minimum 45 hour requirment. The biggest reason for this is that it teaches you the concept of flying. Once in the real aircraft all you need to do is apply this concept in the real aircraft.

[Pace]

TRPGPilot

I know exactly what you mean I can remember flying into Cork at night in terrible winds. The twin I was flying real time was hitting shear all over the place and I can remember thinking " Oh well if I crash onto the runway all that will happen is the computer will reset and I can try again"

In a lot of ways the sim with some of the better addons is very realistic.
Really pleased that MS have resurected the sim and a new version is going to be released.

Sadly I bet they dont rewrite the flight dynamics engine which is far too complex and un real but has been in place for over a decade.

Pace

[gingernut]

Of course there's nothing more satisfying than shooting down the hun in the "Combat" version.

My instructor (in real life) used to take great delight in exclaiming "I have control" every time we flew over the 16:50 from Leeds to Liverpool. I'm sure he used to pretend to strafe the carriages. More fun than any "television game"- as he used to call them.

[AOB9]

I get the impression "MS FLIGHT" will do very little for serious flight simmers. The graphics may improve but I reckon Microsoft want to bring FLIGHT to the masses. In order to do this they will most likely dumb down flight dynamics and other complexities within the program. I definitely feel that this will be more of an attempt at Gran Turismo in the sky than the previous Flight Simulator theme. Remember, MS want all of their games to cross their many platforms, X-Box live, W7 mobile etc. I wouldn't be uninstalling FSX just yet. The future is lovely graphics and audio but much less "skill" to get the job done. I visualize a new batch of "expert pilots" registering with pprune.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Seems to me that MS "flight" is just going to be an aerial version of GTA

Is there anybody out there who is developing a realistic flight model for a desktop light aircraft flight sim ? Forget about the visuals it would be nice if there was a program where you could fly the aircraft sensibly on instruments in order to practice IFR procedures.

And on a related note is there any third party "fixes" to the horrible MSFS flight model ?

[GGR]

If this has been said earlier than forgive me but....I got the PPL in 1977. following a loss of medical and considerable lack of wonga I found MSFS a good way to keep the dream alive. I have recently returned to revalidation and regularly find FS has been worth the investment of time sat glued to a screen....I did multi and IR so please dont roast me here!

GGR

[Sciolistes]

Is there anybody out there who is developing a realistic flight model for a desktop light aircraft flight sim ? Forget about the visuals it would be nice if there was a program where you could fly the aircraft sensibly on instruments in order to practice IFR procedures.

ELITE Pilot is your best bet. I have used it for years, the flight models are designed specifically for that aircraft and match the POH. The avionics and systems controls are fully simulted, the failures are can be very insidious, the genview visuals are good enough to compare to a CAA chart, the weather system easily configurable but the winds are a little coarse. Finally, setting up proper IFR scenarios is so much easier than in MSFS and so much less tme consuming generally. I found MSFS and irritating faff for the most part.

[Tinstaafl]

Flight Gear is an open source/free software development released under the GPL that strives for accuracy in its modeling. It's also multi-platform. Dowload it for free - including source code - and fill your boots. You can contribute your skills to the project or even fork it and develop your own version if you wish.

[PapaNovGolf]

Sim - not bad for bad weather days and times when you really can't be arsed going down to the airfield. It's also not a bad tool to get the eyes used to a bit of IF. I also found, as a late-stage SPL, that the sim bears no resemblance to the feel of the real thing. I cut back my sim time dramatically about a month after starting flying lessons, when it became clear to me that the sim felt so different to flying for real eg. thermals, turbulence, winds etc. Good luck in your training!

[dirkdj]

My first simulator experience was in a genuine Link trainer (WW2 vintage) while working on my IR in 1969. Blue box, hissing and puffing with a 'spider' marking the track with a pen and the instructor manually adjusting the radionav signals. In the personal computer era (late 1980'ies) I went from Microsoft FS (DOS version) to the British program that used to be advertised in Pilot (don't remember the name but is was DOS and was flown using the keyboard only). I used it to keep my tracking skills sharp. I started using X-Plane about 6-7 years ago because it is and remains the only program available for Win, Linux and Mac. In my opinion X-Plane has a very competent flight model, less eye candy and can be highly customized. You need a fairly modern computer to run it. A friend of mine (ex-pilot) runs it on a three-projector setup with hardware cockpit with hardware GNS-430 etc.

if you are a pilot already, PC sims are very valuable tools to keep your skills (navigation, instrument scans, partial panel etc. Learning to fly from scratch using only a pc-sim is not such a good idea, but supporting what your learned from an instructor is helpful.

[AOB9]

I totally agree. I have been using MS Flight Sim for a decade now and only recently started my PPL training for real. The flight sim is a really useful support tool but I needed to completely revise how I actually use it.