Would you attempt this flight today?

[Contacttower]

As you may have guessed I made my mind up not to do this flight before I posted the thread, reason being that the freezing level was not really compatible with an airways flight and the low level option is just a bit too complicated plus as many have said would have made for a rather bumpy flight. I'm sitting in a service station right now near Carlisle and the cloud is very low indeed, something that one should tend to avoid when flying a single in IMC if possible.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts though...and do keep them coming.

[bookworm]

That too - forecast says max VSP 800fpm - but flying for hours in IMC being constantly thrown about is incredibly tiring, even with an autopilot.

But would you be "constantly thrown about"? In my experience, you get above the boundary layer and it's smooth enough. I accept that terrain can change that.

Indeed, but unless you were lucky and hit a period when there was no-one else wanting to fly the TLA SID they'd be unlikely to accept someone climbing slowly at, what - 90 knots? - and clogging up the system.

Well, how do you normally depart southbound IFR from PH? Why would that be difficult today?

[Juno78]

I just wanted to say that as someone currently studying the Met paper for my PPL training and just having started cross-country navigation as well, this thread has been really interesting to see the thought processes involved in actually analysing it all. Thanks all!

[Contacttower]

I think bookworm's plan may have worked provided the freezing levels in the south of the country really were as high as forecast. Still would have been quite a bumpy flight though I think.

[bookworm]

Temperature prediction is, in my experience, pretty good.

The 1200Z Obs seem to be missing, but the soundings seem to show the freezing level above FL100 over England:

Herstmonceux
00Z 04 Nov 2010 sub-zero above 670 hPa (1.2 degC at 700 hPa)
00Z 05 Nov 2010 sub-zero above 670 hPa (2.4 degC at 700 hPa)

Nottingham
00Z 04 Nov 2010 sub-zero above 680 hPa (0.8 degC at 700 hPa)
00Z 05 Nov 2010 sub-zero above 690 hPa (1.4 degC at 700 hPa)

Albermarle
00Z 04 Nov 2010 sub-zero above 770 hPa (2.2 degC at 850 hPa)
12Z 04 Nov 2010 sub-zero above 740 hPa (5.0 degC at 810 hPa)
00Z 05 Nov 2010 sub-zero above 780 hPa (4.4 degC at 850 hPa)

There's a difference between trusting freezing level forecasts where the minimum level is dictated by terrain, and trusting them where the minimum level is dictated by airspace or ATC needs. In this case, if the freezing levels had been lower than anticipated, you might have had to go below controlled airspace or abort the flight.

I'm not suggesting that this would have been a pleasant flight, and whether I would have attempted it depends on the circumstances and alternatives. But you did ask "how", and I still believe it would have been better at FL90 than at low level.

[NorthSouth]

But would you be "constantly thrown about"? In my experience, you get above the boundary layer and it's smooth enough. I accept that terrain can change that.

It was the situation over the southern uplands and lake district I was thinking of, and from experience of upper winds way less than 55kts. In any case the forecast had 800fpm mountain wave in it.

Well, how do you normally depart southbound IFR from PH? Why would that be difficult today?

There are very few light single IFR airways departures out of Edinburgh. I don't have an IR only an IMC but any IFR departures I've done have been VFR to West Linton then climbing IFR to Talla.

NS

[Contacttower]

There are very few light single IFR airways departures out of Edinburgh. I don't have an IR only an IMC but any IFR departures I've done have been VFR to West Linton then climbing IFR to Talla.

I would have been flying out of Perth so usual procedure for me is to call Scottish Control directly and join controlled airspace on track GRICE, from Edinburgh not sure what they would do with you...not that it really matters if you were going to fly IFR outside of controlled airspace until POL.

Following bookworm's plan I just would have stayed below class A airspace, getting whatever zone transits necessary and then done my own thing until POL.

[IO540]

The postings here highlight different attitudes to flying in IMC for long periods.

I know pilots who do it happily, so long as they are below the freezing level, even though they have no radar, and perhaps only a stormscope to indicate hazardous conditions ahead. This is not unreasonable in pure safety terms, because if you stay below Va, there should not be anything there that would cause a structural failure of the airframe.

I would not usually be so happy doing it (stormscope only) because it is only in a fairly narrow range of weather that you can be sure that nothing nasty is going to be hiding in there. Especially in southern Europe... also flying below the 0C level stops most IFR flight in the winter.

So I tend to use my IR mostly to climb to VMC on top, and the satellite IR images are priceless for this.

If one is going to penetrate something nasty, it is better to do so at a low level (and definitely below the freezing level).

I tend to find the freezing level forecast to be fairly reliable.

[Contacttower]

How easy is to get the Eurocontrol computer to accept a flight plan that is only partially in the airways system?

Edited to add, I just worked it out...

[bookworm]

In the UK, it's just a question of using DCTs outside airways, because the distance limit on DCTs in the lower airspace is quite long. In other states, it's sometimes much harder, of course.

[IO540]

It is easy to file a Eurocontrol flight plan at some low level (e.g. 2400ft).

The computer doesn't check a string of DCTs, except for the MAX-DCT value which in the UK is 100nm below FL100, I think.

The problem is that it is worthless. London Control will wash its hands of it within 100ms of you pressing the Send button It will be ignored by all enroute units, and (apart from telling people where to look for wreckage) is worth no more than just flying non-radio all the way, "VFR", having made a phone call to the destination to make sure it is open, etc. (although if you file a flight plan to a destination which is closed, due to wx or a crash or needing PPR/PNR, etc, they will invariably not return a message saying you cannot go there ).

The grey area is filing IFR flight plans at some "not quite obviously airways" level e.g. FL060. This can break down (in terms of acceptance by enroute IFR ATC) for various reasons too, starting with the departure airport giving you a squawk which belongs to their allocated squawk range and not one they got from Control. I thus never file IFR below FL100 and preferably FL140 because that's where the routes get better.

I've got some www notes on this stuff.

[bookworm]

I've never had a problem filing the sort of FPL I described in post #5, and getting the airways clearance at the joining point.