Maintenance at Elstree - Beware
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Yakker
Have I seen that!!
Some years back an owner asked us to do the annual check on his aircraft, the last MO had not done any AD's or SB's four of the AD's involved control or major structual inspections, all items that could end your life very quickly if left undone.
The whole thing was summed up at the end of the inspection when the oil pressue failed to get into the green arc.
The owner said to "leave it" as it had been like it for years! I was not about to release this to service with a potental oil pressue problem so we investigated it.
It turned out that the last MO had fitted the wrong PX sender, so this had to be changed, they had also (no doubt during the investigation of the snag) lost the nuts from the back of the gauge and had fitted american nuts on a metric thread............... the result of this was the gauge had to be replaced as well due to the damage done to the gauge. Quite early in the investigation we found that the engine oil pressue was in fact running over pressure, no doubt the oil PX had been set at a high pressure in an attempt to cover up the indication issues.
The net result is that for the first time in years the owner was flying an airworthy aircraft, however he was very unhappy with the price and refused to pay for what he considered to be unnessesary work, eventualy a settlement was reached and the aircraft went back to the former MO.
I have little doubt that the owner is now flying around and very happy in is cheaply under maintaned death trap.
Some years back an owner asked us to do the annual check on his aircraft, the last MO had not done any AD's or SB's four of the AD's involved control or major structual inspections, all items that could end your life very quickly if left undone.
The whole thing was summed up at the end of the inspection when the oil pressue failed to get into the green arc.
The owner said to "leave it" as it had been like it for years! I was not about to release this to service with a potental oil pressue problem so we investigated it.
It turned out that the last MO had fitted the wrong PX sender, so this had to be changed, they had also (no doubt during the investigation of the snag) lost the nuts from the back of the gauge and had fitted american nuts on a metric thread............... the result of this was the gauge had to be replaced as well due to the damage done to the gauge. Quite early in the investigation we found that the engine oil pressue was in fact running over pressure, no doubt the oil PX had been set at a high pressure in an attempt to cover up the indication issues.
The net result is that for the first time in years the owner was flying an airworthy aircraft, however he was very unhappy with the price and refused to pay for what he considered to be unnessesary work, eventualy a settlement was reached and the aircraft went back to the former MO.
I have little doubt that the owner is now flying around and very happy in is cheaply under maintaned death trap.
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however he was very unhappy with the price and refused to pay for what he considered to be unnessesary work
For me, any apparent issue with the ignition, oil or fuel system is an absolute no-go item.
That said, I have installed a backup oil pressure gauge because the Socata one has a bit of a "history".
It does amaze me how many people turn up in say a nice new Porsche or a Merc and climb into some right piece of wreckage. It's a weird psychology...
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It's a weird psychology...
I think that it all comes from being told in the media that flying is safe and that it is all "CAA approved" and that nothing can go wrong.
This results in an attitude of "nothing will go wrong to my aircraft" and so they apparently don't have to worry about expensive maintenance.
The fact that the carefull and therefore expensive maintenance is what keeps flying safe seems to get lost in the nice walm feeling of only paying £800 for an Annual check!
This results in an attitude of "nothing will go wrong to my aircraft" and so they apparently don't have to worry about expensive maintenance.
The fact that the carefull and therefore expensive maintenance is what keeps flying safe seems to get lost in the nice walm feeling of only paying £800 for an Annual check!
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An Update
I am given to understand that following a CAA inspection of our aircraft, the maintenance organisation responsible has had it's approvals suspended pending further investigation.
Can't really fault the CAA on this one. They were made aware of something dangerous, they investigated it promptly and took decisive action.
Doesn't help get the HUGE bill paid, but it might stop them doing the same thing to other people.
Can't really fault the CAA on this one. They were made aware of something dangerous, they investigated it promptly and took decisive action.
Doesn't help get the HUGE bill paid, but it might stop them doing the same thing to other people.
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Julian and common sense
As far as I can see Julian is the first to put in print what many have thought over the years. I am not a lawyer so offer no advice but I cant see the point of a libel action for something that so many know to be true and anyway I don't see anyone saying they are going to sue.
The good news is that I have heard on the grapevine the "elstree maintenance" (cant we say the name?) team have a new lead engineer joining who, I know, is of excellent pedigree .... maybe the owners have taken Julian's thread seriously .. if so well done to Julian, a man amongst sheep...... I hope you get some compo, yet may be able to return and know you have improved the facility.
The good news is that I have heard on the grapevine the "elstree maintenance" (cant we say the name?) team have a new lead engineer joining who, I know, is of excellent pedigree .... maybe the owners have taken Julian's thread seriously .. if so well done to Julian, a man amongst sheep...... I hope you get some compo, yet may be able to return and know you have improved the facility.
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Thanks Phil.
I genuinely have no wish to see them go out of business, but they did need to be stopped from carrying on the way they were, before they killed one of us.
If the rumours you have heard are true, it sounds like they may have had the wake up call that they needed.
I genuinely have no wish to see them go out of business, but they did need to be stopped from carrying on the way they were, before they killed one of us.
If the rumours you have heard are true, it sounds like they may have had the wake up call that they needed.
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Silvaire1
Fortunaly you don't have to deal with the European system that is big on paperwork but I do have to ask if you follow the aircraft manufacturers recomendations to the letter?
EASA consider these recomendations as mandatory and give the maintenance company no option but to do unnessesary work in the face of common sense.
You simply can't say "my annuals only cost £120" as it is meaningless in this case, we too have customers who have the time and ability to work on their aircraft and so reduce their bills. I think that you need to price your work at £ 42/hour and then see just what an annual check is worth.
Returning to the thread I have seen increasing evidence that the CAA is getting more agressive on rule enforcment and are actively looking for those companys that are not doing all the work required.
EASA consider these recomendations as mandatory and give the maintenance company no option but to do unnessesary work in the face of common sense.
You simply can't say "my annuals only cost £120" as it is meaningless in this case, we too have customers who have the time and ability to work on their aircraft and so reduce their bills. I think that you need to price your work at £ 42/hour and then see just what an annual check is worth.
Returning to the thread I have seen increasing evidence that the CAA is getting more agressive on rule enforcment and are actively looking for those companys that are not doing all the work required.
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Assuming that Silvaire is referring to a Silvaire his costs are not out of order. In the UK ours are around £195.
What you need for the annual on a Silvaire is a relatively short list:-
Oil filter
Fuel filter
Air filter
Oil
Rocker gaskets
During the course of the annual you may find bits that need replacement but they are not part of the cost of the annual, they are items that, if you have your wits about you would be found and fixed during the year.
The vast bulk of the cost is in time, not materials. We usually have 3 people doing it over 3 days, including the test flight. It involves removal of prop and cowlings, all fairings and inspection panels and the seats. A thorough clean and inspection, inspections required by AD's, a compression check and lubrication of hinges. Some might think 9 man days is excessive for something that's basically a glider with an engine nailed on the front but it's an old aeroplane and we like to be thorough.
What you need for the annual on a Silvaire is a relatively short list:-
Oil filter
Fuel filter
Air filter
Oil
Rocker gaskets
During the course of the annual you may find bits that need replacement but they are not part of the cost of the annual, they are items that, if you have your wits about you would be found and fixed during the year.
The vast bulk of the cost is in time, not materials. We usually have 3 people doing it over 3 days, including the test flight. It involves removal of prop and cowlings, all fairings and inspection panels and the seats. A thorough clean and inspection, inspections required by AD's, a compression check and lubrication of hinges. Some might think 9 man days is excessive for something that's basically a glider with an engine nailed on the front but it's an old aeroplane and we like to be thorough.
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It's not unlike the car repair business (which I'm in).
Some people are grateful when you find a number of faults on their machine and will be happy to authorise and pay for the work. Others will assume you're trying to rip them off and will post poor reviews on internet forums. (I'm not referring to the OP here, it's a general observation)
It comes down to integrity at the end of the day.
If the company has integrity they will always find as much wrong with your machine as they can and then offer you information such that you can make the correct decision on whether to proceed with that work or not.
Is it a safety issue?
Is it a legal issue?
Is it a reliability issue?
Is it a cosmetic issue?
Is it a performance issue?
Is it an issue for the re-sale value?
These discussions get easier once you have established a relationship with your repair organisation because they originate from a position of mutual trust.
What you should never do is assume that the cheapest is the best!
Some people are grateful when you find a number of faults on their machine and will be happy to authorise and pay for the work. Others will assume you're trying to rip them off and will post poor reviews on internet forums. (I'm not referring to the OP here, it's a general observation)
It comes down to integrity at the end of the day.
If the company has integrity they will always find as much wrong with your machine as they can and then offer you information such that you can make the correct decision on whether to proceed with that work or not.
Is it a safety issue?
Is it a legal issue?
Is it a reliability issue?
Is it a cosmetic issue?
Is it a performance issue?
Is it an issue for the re-sale value?
These discussions get easier once you have established a relationship with your repair organisation because they originate from a position of mutual trust.
What you should never do is assume that the cheapest is the best!
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3 people, 3 days, @ £42/hr
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Thank you Yakker you have made the point, however the basic annual inspection cost in the UK is IRO £1200.
Parts, defect rectification and AD's are extra.
Unfortunatly Annex 1 aircraft also have to have the ARC, a bit of pointless paper that unfortunatly costs IRO £700 annualy to administer.
Parts, defect rectification and AD's are extra.
Unfortunatly Annex 1 aircraft also have to have the ARC, a bit of pointless paper that unfortunatly costs IRO £700 annualy to administer.
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This MO is to be shut. There is a new managment team and new Q.C rules and approch. The new boss is a very fine man and a very good engineer. It is sad that the old company had to go down the drains as the new guys are going to face issues of trust and more as once you lose your customers they are unlikely to come back.
