First solo
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you will never forget your first solo, but for sheer satisfaction, the QXC is right up there too
First and foremost, don't try anything you read here without first discussing it with your instructor.
I had a similar problem to you when I was learning to fly, and it stayed with me even after I passed my PPL until an instructor giving me a type rating told me when you think you should be flaring, look out the window on a 45 degree angle at an object next to the runway (like a hangar, a tree or another aircraft) and your height above the ground will become readily apparent.
As far as flaring too fast, you have to remember that in order to flare you have to round out first, and the two need to blend together. The trick is to ease the stick back to reduce your rate of descent without arresting it entirely. My instructor made me count to 10 aloud while flaring to get the action right. When I asked him how I could possibly flare in time to avoid hitting the ground, he said to start "flaring" earlier. The ideal landing would see you arrive at your landing spot in the correct landing attitude at minimum flying speed, so he said to start at that point in time and work backwards and fly the plane from the approach to that point. Sometimes simplifying the problem can make it click, and I finally "got it".
As for your original post, it doesn't matter how long it takes, as long as you get there in the end!
I had a similar problem to you when I was learning to fly, and it stayed with me even after I passed my PPL until an instructor giving me a type rating told me when you think you should be flaring, look out the window on a 45 degree angle at an object next to the runway (like a hangar, a tree or another aircraft) and your height above the ground will become readily apparent.
As far as flaring too fast, you have to remember that in order to flare you have to round out first, and the two need to blend together. The trick is to ease the stick back to reduce your rate of descent without arresting it entirely. My instructor made me count to 10 aloud while flaring to get the action right. When I asked him how I could possibly flare in time to avoid hitting the ground, he said to start "flaring" earlier. The ideal landing would see you arrive at your landing spot in the correct landing attitude at minimum flying speed, so he said to start at that point in time and work backwards and fly the plane from the approach to that point. Sometimes simplifying the problem can make it click, and I finally "got it".
As for your original post, it doesn't matter how long it takes, as long as you get there in the end!
Last edited by flyinkiwi; 21st Oct 2010 at 22:06.
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Adam,
I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you had already flown your first solo, because you wrote you were doing circuit-bashing now. For me the circuit-bashing came after the first solo, and I thought this was the same for PPL training in the UK.
Anyway, don't worry about the hours. As I know from my fellow students and myself, it very often takes just a single lesson to learn something you have been struggling with for a long time before. So, most likely your first solo will happen sooner than you think, maybe after your next flight.
Best of luck.
hvogt
I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you had already flown your first solo, because you wrote you were doing circuit-bashing now. For me the circuit-bashing came after the first solo, and I thought this was the same for PPL training in the UK.
Anyway, don't worry about the hours. As I know from my fellow students and myself, it very often takes just a single lesson to learn something you have been struggling with for a long time before. So, most likely your first solo will happen sooner than you think, maybe after your next flight.
Best of luck.
hvogt
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Sorry, my fault, looks like I have mis-used the term 'circuit-bashing' as it prob means solo practice. It was the term I used as my instructor has made it clear to me that all we will be doing now is circuits as there is nothing for me to perfect other than the landings really b4 I go solo.
Once I have cracked the flare I should be in business.
Thanks to one and all again for the help and advice
Adam
Once I have cracked the flare I should be in business.
Thanks to one and all again for the help and advice
Adam
If you do three consistent safe landings without scaring the instructor or damaging the aircraft and the weather has not changed you will probably do the forth on your own.
Emphasis on the consistency, they do not have to be perfect, just safe and consistent
Emphasis on the consistency, they do not have to be perfect, just safe and consistent
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Previous Threads
Hi Adam,
Here are a few threads on the subject of the number of hours before going solo:
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...ours-gfpt.html
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...irst-solo.html
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...-1st-solo.html
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...irst-solo.html
I am sure that there was quite a recent one (last couple of months) but I couldn't find it.
The 4th thread is huge and goes back several years, but very interestingly it contains the results of a poll of nearly 600 people!
Here are a few threads on the subject of the number of hours before going solo:
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-a...ours-gfpt.html
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...irst-solo.html
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...-1st-solo.html
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...irst-solo.html
I am sure that there was quite a recent one (last couple of months) but I couldn't find it.
The 4th thread is huge and goes back several years, but very interestingly it contains the results of a poll of nearly 600 people!
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Hey Adam.
I took 19.6 hours to go solo. I was more than ready, as my instructor had made me do about 6 hours of them before hand to ensure he wasnt made to look like a dick when I was checked by the examiner. I probably could have gone earlier, but in aviation it's definately better to be sure.
RE: the flare. May I very shamlessly plug one of my youtube videos for you to watch. This is from a flight only undertaken on Oct 21st. If you skip to 08:00 you can see my approach and how I tackle the flare with a mild headwind (offset 20deg). The key is to fly stright and level at about 5ft above the runway with power off. Drag will slowly reduce the airspeed and you will slowly start to descend. But you want to resist the descent and keep slowly pulling back very gently attempting to keep the nose on the horizon. By the time you're near the stall, drag should have lowered you to just a foot or so above the surface (remember the stall warner goes off about 5kts above the stall, so if you hear it, dont panic and drop the nose, just hold it steady).
YouTube - GoPro HD - Flying (Audio 1-2 sec out of sync for most of the video, with the exception of the first 10 and last 10 seconds).
I'm new to this myself having only accumulated 6 hours post license, so I'm more than happy for constructive critisism.
I took 19.6 hours to go solo. I was more than ready, as my instructor had made me do about 6 hours of them before hand to ensure he wasnt made to look like a dick when I was checked by the examiner. I probably could have gone earlier, but in aviation it's definately better to be sure.
RE: the flare. May I very shamlessly plug one of my youtube videos for you to watch. This is from a flight only undertaken on Oct 21st. If you skip to 08:00 you can see my approach and how I tackle the flare with a mild headwind (offset 20deg). The key is to fly stright and level at about 5ft above the runway with power off. Drag will slowly reduce the airspeed and you will slowly start to descend. But you want to resist the descent and keep slowly pulling back very gently attempting to keep the nose on the horizon. By the time you're near the stall, drag should have lowered you to just a foot or so above the surface (remember the stall warner goes off about 5kts above the stall, so if you hear it, dont panic and drop the nose, just hold it steady).
YouTube - GoPro HD - Flying (Audio 1-2 sec out of sync for most of the video, with the exception of the first 10 and last 10 seconds).
I'm new to this myself having only accumulated 6 hours post license, so I'm more than happy for constructive critisism.
Last edited by Paul H; 23rd Oct 2010 at 01:14.
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Update
Hi all,
A few of you who were kind enough to give me advice/answer my questions asked for an update and I am pleased to say that not only did I go on to master the flare My instructor announced a after a few circuits yesterday we were landing so he could get out and for me to do my first solo.
I was not nervous as I had been taught well by a great instructor and felt I knew what I had to do. It was the single most amazing experience of my life and not only did I really enjoy it but I flew my best circuit yet.
To add to the list I went solo at 16hrs which I am fairly chuffed with.
Thanks again everyone, the words of wisdom certainly helped
Adam
A few of you who were kind enough to give me advice/answer my questions asked for an update and I am pleased to say that not only did I go on to master the flare My instructor announced a after a few circuits yesterday we were landing so he could get out and for me to do my first solo.
I was not nervous as I had been taught well by a great instructor and felt I knew what I had to do. It was the single most amazing experience of my life and not only did I really enjoy it but I flew my best circuit yet.
To add to the list I went solo at 16hrs which I am fairly chuffed with.
Thanks again everyone, the words of wisdom certainly helped
Adam
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No "Controls: full/free movement in the correct sense" check???
Hence - use a checklist!
I'll always remember training at a very well known FL based school - one of my buddies decided to do the walk around/pre-flight without a checklist. When challenged, he said he'd "memorised it". The colourful owner gave him both barrels such: "the 10,000 hour captain who flew you over here used a checklist, so you bl**dy well have to!". Good point, well made.
Hence - use a checklist!
I'll always remember training at a very well known FL based school - one of my buddies decided to do the walk around/pre-flight without a checklist. When challenged, he said he'd "memorised it". The colourful owner gave him both barrels such: "the 10,000 hour captain who flew you over here used a checklist, so you bl**dy well have to!". Good point, well made.
Paul H
As a new PPL you fly quite well. The landing in particular was nice with no porposing in the flare and a nice tail low touchdown.
You asked for some construcive criticism so here is my thoughts (I am an experienced instructor)
1) I second the above comments on the checklist. You have a good flow and obviously have worked at and are comfortable with the checks, but you should still "check" your actions once completed with the "checklist". Memorized checks for inflight busy periods like in the circuit are entirely appropriate but when the aircraft is not moving like pre/post start and pretakeoff you should use the checklist.
2) Get set up with seat belts on, seat adjusted cockpit organized before you start the engine. I strongly recommend the shoulder belts be used. If you crash with only a lap belt your head will impact the middle of the instrument panel. Imagine how your face will look after it smashes into all the knobs and protuberances on the panel.......
3) IMO you are placing excesive faith in the parking brake. The aircraft was pointed at a open hangar and was running while you were head down fiddling with the seat, closing he storm window, etc etc. Piper park brakes are not too bad but the Cessna ones (and many other light aircraft) are generally terrrible. It is a good idea to expect the park brake to slip and therefore keep an eye outside any time the engine is running
4) Do one task at a time. As you get more experience you can multitask, but as a new pilot give yourself some extra margin. So for example when starting the engine all you attention should be on that task and you only move onto the next one when the engine is running smoothly and the after start memory checks (RPM set, oil pressure rising, and ammeter not indicating massive discharge {a sure sign of a hung starter}) are complete.
5) I like to squeeze on a little brake just as the aircraft starts to roll as you start the taxi to make sure the brakes are in fact working, and require even pedal pressure.
6) When doing the runup don't rush. When you checked the carb heat it was only on for 2 or 3 seconds. Remember you are checking 2 things, 1: is the carb heat working and 2: is there carb ice ?. There is no way you will detect both in this brief time. Leave the heat on for at least 15 seconds while minitoring the RPM (you should see the intial drop in RPM indicating that the carb heat is functioning and then a rise in RPM if ice were present. If a lot of ice is present the engine will intially run rough which is a positive indication of ice build up but a small amount of ice will only be noticable as a gradual rise in RPM as it is melted off). For the mixture check I like to do it immediately after the carb ice check with the carb heat still on. As the mixture is slowly leaned the RPM should slowly rise as the overly rich mixture created by the carb heat is reduced and then the RPM should drop as the mixture becomes overly lean. This is a very good check that the mixture control is working properly and that the carburator is properly set up.
7) For most emergencies there is no rush to complete the vital actions, The main exception is the takeoff engine failure/fire senario. I teach that the last part of the pretakeoff check is to verbalize the actions that will be taken for an engine failure during the takeoff and for an engine failure after takeoff. This mental preparation primes the brain for the quick actions that are required if the worst happens.
8) I also like to use one hand on the stick and one hand on the throttle for takeoff. The control forces are not high so there is no reason not to guard the throttle on takeoff (and landing too).
9) I want my students to verbalize what I call the "good engine" call on takeoff. As soon as the trottle is fully advanced they look at the RPM guage and verify that the engine RPM is within the static RPM limits and that the main engine gauges are in the green.
10) IMO your flap retraction after takeoff was unnecessarily delayed. The purpose of the flaps is to help get the aircraft off the ground. Once it is off and climbing solidly at the Vy and clear of obstactles retract the flaps to maximise rate of climb. Altitude is your friend, you want to getthat first 1000 feet as quickly as possible.
It is easy to nit pick a video from the comfort of your computer screen so please do not take the above as me throwing rocks at your efforts. There is also more than one "right" way to fly an aircraft. My comments were meant to give you some things to think about and of course should be compared/contrasted with other opinions
Have fun flying !
As a new PPL you fly quite well. The landing in particular was nice with no porposing in the flare and a nice tail low touchdown.
You asked for some construcive criticism so here is my thoughts (I am an experienced instructor)
1) I second the above comments on the checklist. You have a good flow and obviously have worked at and are comfortable with the checks, but you should still "check" your actions once completed with the "checklist". Memorized checks for inflight busy periods like in the circuit are entirely appropriate but when the aircraft is not moving like pre/post start and pretakeoff you should use the checklist.
2) Get set up with seat belts on, seat adjusted cockpit organized before you start the engine. I strongly recommend the shoulder belts be used. If you crash with only a lap belt your head will impact the middle of the instrument panel. Imagine how your face will look after it smashes into all the knobs and protuberances on the panel.......
3) IMO you are placing excesive faith in the parking brake. The aircraft was pointed at a open hangar and was running while you were head down fiddling with the seat, closing he storm window, etc etc. Piper park brakes are not too bad but the Cessna ones (and many other light aircraft) are generally terrrible. It is a good idea to expect the park brake to slip and therefore keep an eye outside any time the engine is running
4) Do one task at a time. As you get more experience you can multitask, but as a new pilot give yourself some extra margin. So for example when starting the engine all you attention should be on that task and you only move onto the next one when the engine is running smoothly and the after start memory checks (RPM set, oil pressure rising, and ammeter not indicating massive discharge {a sure sign of a hung starter}) are complete.
5) I like to squeeze on a little brake just as the aircraft starts to roll as you start the taxi to make sure the brakes are in fact working, and require even pedal pressure.
6) When doing the runup don't rush. When you checked the carb heat it was only on for 2 or 3 seconds. Remember you are checking 2 things, 1: is the carb heat working and 2: is there carb ice ?. There is no way you will detect both in this brief time. Leave the heat on for at least 15 seconds while minitoring the RPM (you should see the intial drop in RPM indicating that the carb heat is functioning and then a rise in RPM if ice were present. If a lot of ice is present the engine will intially run rough which is a positive indication of ice build up but a small amount of ice will only be noticable as a gradual rise in RPM as it is melted off). For the mixture check I like to do it immediately after the carb ice check with the carb heat still on. As the mixture is slowly leaned the RPM should slowly rise as the overly rich mixture created by the carb heat is reduced and then the RPM should drop as the mixture becomes overly lean. This is a very good check that the mixture control is working properly and that the carburator is properly set up.
7) For most emergencies there is no rush to complete the vital actions, The main exception is the takeoff engine failure/fire senario. I teach that the last part of the pretakeoff check is to verbalize the actions that will be taken for an engine failure during the takeoff and for an engine failure after takeoff. This mental preparation primes the brain for the quick actions that are required if the worst happens.
8) I also like to use one hand on the stick and one hand on the throttle for takeoff. The control forces are not high so there is no reason not to guard the throttle on takeoff (and landing too).
9) I want my students to verbalize what I call the "good engine" call on takeoff. As soon as the trottle is fully advanced they look at the RPM guage and verify that the engine RPM is within the static RPM limits and that the main engine gauges are in the green.
10) IMO your flap retraction after takeoff was unnecessarily delayed. The purpose of the flaps is to help get the aircraft off the ground. Once it is off and climbing solidly at the Vy and clear of obstactles retract the flaps to maximise rate of climb. Altitude is your friend, you want to getthat first 1000 feet as quickly as possible.
It is easy to nit pick a video from the comfort of your computer screen so please do not take the above as me throwing rocks at your efforts. There is also more than one "right" way to fly an aircraft. My comments were meant to give you some things to think about and of course should be compared/contrasted with other opinions
Have fun flying !
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Ok, let me answer a few points made above.
1) I am fully aware I'm not using a checklist in this video. This is not my normal practice. I had just recieved the camera in the post 30 minutes before and was desperate to try it out as I was going away the following morning, and the Sun was getting low in the sky. If I were flying outside of the circuit, I wouldn't have hesitated in using one, but as I was only doing 1-2 circuits, I decided not to use one. Admittedly I chose to sacrifice safety for conveinience
2) "Controls: full/free movement in the correct sense" check???"
This check had already been completed before I got in the a/c, although I agree, for safety purposes it should have been checked again before t/o. I assume that as the piper control surface are controled via "mechanical" means, once tested they should not require double checking surely?
3) RE: "I strongly recommend the shoulder belts be used"
I agree too, but in the a/c we use they cut across your neck something terrible and cause a lot of discomfort while flying. In the video in question you see me wearing a hoodie so I suppose I have no excuse. I suppose it's a bad habit I've picked up as I usually wear low neck clothing while flying for comfort.
4) "IMO you are placing excesive faith in the parking brake"
Good point. I suppose from experience I know they are quite effective in the a/c I fly, but assumptions cause accidents. Thanks for that one.
5) "I like to squeeze on a little brake just as the aircraft starts to roll as you start the taxi to make sure the brakes are in fact working"
This is another good point, that I was once told by an old instructor that I once flew with. I remember him actually failing a student who was on a solo circuit test because he didn't do this. I did it a few times with other instructors but was told something along the lines of "assuming the brakes don't work once you've started taxing, just idle the mixture to shut off the engine...problem solved". Your point about our a/c facing the hangar though, will make me second think this again. Thanks.
6) "When doing the runup don't rush. When you checked the carb heat it was only on for 2 or 3 seconds"
I was under the imrepession (as you've stated) that if there is no ice the RPM will drop. If I watch the RPM drop after 2-3 seconds and running smoothly, what else do I have to wait for? RE: the mixture. I was never told to check it, at least it's not part of our airfields checklist. I know how to, but it was never a requirement. Again, I guess it's the lack of a habit. I'll definately start checking it as you suggest, thanks again.
7) "I want my students to verbalize what I call the "good engine" call on takeoff"
Nice idea, I'll give it a go.
8) " IMO your flap retraction after takeoff was unnecessarily delayed"
I was taught not to retract the flaps until 550ft on QNH (300ft QFE). This obviously increases the lift the wings produce which is vital at low speeds. As the winds can be quite unpredictable at low levels, I was told that keeping the flaps down until reaching "a safe height", can reduce any unnecessary loss of lift if the wind rapidly changes direction or speed.
Thanks again everyone for the feedback. It is all apprecitated
1) I am fully aware I'm not using a checklist in this video. This is not my normal practice. I had just recieved the camera in the post 30 minutes before and was desperate to try it out as I was going away the following morning, and the Sun was getting low in the sky. If I were flying outside of the circuit, I wouldn't have hesitated in using one, but as I was only doing 1-2 circuits, I decided not to use one. Admittedly I chose to sacrifice safety for conveinience
2) "Controls: full/free movement in the correct sense" check???"
This check had already been completed before I got in the a/c, although I agree, for safety purposes it should have been checked again before t/o. I assume that as the piper control surface are controled via "mechanical" means, once tested they should not require double checking surely?
3) RE: "I strongly recommend the shoulder belts be used"
I agree too, but in the a/c we use they cut across your neck something terrible and cause a lot of discomfort while flying. In the video in question you see me wearing a hoodie so I suppose I have no excuse. I suppose it's a bad habit I've picked up as I usually wear low neck clothing while flying for comfort.
4) "IMO you are placing excesive faith in the parking brake"
Good point. I suppose from experience I know they are quite effective in the a/c I fly, but assumptions cause accidents. Thanks for that one.
5) "I like to squeeze on a little brake just as the aircraft starts to roll as you start the taxi to make sure the brakes are in fact working"
This is another good point, that I was once told by an old instructor that I once flew with. I remember him actually failing a student who was on a solo circuit test because he didn't do this. I did it a few times with other instructors but was told something along the lines of "assuming the brakes don't work once you've started taxing, just idle the mixture to shut off the engine...problem solved". Your point about our a/c facing the hangar though, will make me second think this again. Thanks.
6) "When doing the runup don't rush. When you checked the carb heat it was only on for 2 or 3 seconds"
I was under the imrepession (as you've stated) that if there is no ice the RPM will drop. If I watch the RPM drop after 2-3 seconds and running smoothly, what else do I have to wait for? RE: the mixture. I was never told to check it, at least it's not part of our airfields checklist. I know how to, but it was never a requirement. Again, I guess it's the lack of a habit. I'll definately start checking it as you suggest, thanks again.
7) "I want my students to verbalize what I call the "good engine" call on takeoff"
Nice idea, I'll give it a go.
8) " IMO your flap retraction after takeoff was unnecessarily delayed"
I was taught not to retract the flaps until 550ft on QNH (300ft QFE). This obviously increases the lift the wings produce which is vital at low speeds. As the winds can be quite unpredictable at low levels, I was told that keeping the flaps down until reaching "a safe height", can reduce any unnecessary loss of lift if the wind rapidly changes direction or speed.
Thanks again everyone for the feedback. It is all apprecitated
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RE: the mixture. I was never told to check it, at least it's not part of our airfields checklist. I know how to, but it was never a requirement. Again, I guess it's the lack of a habit. I'll definately start checking it as you suggest, thanks again.
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2) "Controls: full/free movement in the correct sense" check???"
This check had already been completed before I got in the a/c, although I agree, for safety purposes it should have been checked again before t/o. I assume that as the piper control surface are controled via "mechanical" means, once tested they should not require double checking surely?
This check had already been completed before I got in the a/c, although I agree, for safety purposes it should have been checked again before t/o. I assume that as the piper control surface are controled via "mechanical" means, once tested they should not require double checking surely?
5) "I like to squeeze on a little brake just as the aircraft starts to roll as you start the taxi to make sure the brakes are in fact working"
This is another good point, that I was once told by an old instructor that I once flew with. I remember him actually failing a student who was on a solo circuit test because he didn't do this. I did it a few times with other instructors but was told something along the lines of "assuming the brakes don't work once you've started taxing, just idle the mixture to shut off the engine...problem solved".
This is another good point, that I was once told by an old instructor that I once flew with. I remember him actually failing a student who was on a solo circuit test because he didn't do this. I did it a few times with other instructors but was told something along the lines of "assuming the brakes don't work once you've started taxing, just idle the mixture to shut off the engine...problem solved".
6) "When doing the runup don't rush. When you checked the carb heat it was only on for 2 or 3 seconds"
I was under the imrepession (as you've stated) that if there is no ice the RPM will drop. If I watch the RPM drop after 2-3 seconds and running smoothly, what else do I have to wait for?
I was under the imrepession (as you've stated) that if there is no ice the RPM will drop. If I watch the RPM drop after 2-3 seconds and running smoothly, what else do I have to wait for?
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A quick question, one that I can't find an answer for with a superficial search. What should you do if you find ice present? Presumably it built up while you were on the ground, could it not build up again before take off?
Cheers!
Cheers!