First step to getting a license?
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First step to getting a license?
Hi - I have wanted to fly since I was a kid. I am now 39 and the desire has never left me. I spent most of my life thinking it was a pointless exercise as I failed the Isihara test for colour blindness at school (queue violins). I hear that other methods are now used to assess colour blindness (Colour Assessment and Diagnosis Test) which may actually mean that I may pass the test anyway! Even if i fail I read that I can still get NPPL! Fantastic!
So, here I am wondering what my first step should be. I was thinking of taking a medical to determine whether I should be going for JAR 2 or NPPL first. Does this make sense? I live very close to Gatwick - is that the best place to get this done?
I also wanted to embark on a course of self study to get the written part out of the way. I have 18 month old twins so I do need to try to keep costs as low as possible (more violins)
Can anyone advise the best value study pack to get through the written test? A web link would be ideal.
Finally, I was thinking of getting a flight simulator for my PC. Can anyone recommend one which will help me gain skills that will be useful to me when flying in real life? Something that would help me in the areas of navigation/planning routes as well as instruments and flying in general i guess?
Sorry for the noob questions. Hope someone can help.
Dub
So, here I am wondering what my first step should be. I was thinking of taking a medical to determine whether I should be going for JAR 2 or NPPL first. Does this make sense? I live very close to Gatwick - is that the best place to get this done?
I also wanted to embark on a course of self study to get the written part out of the way. I have 18 month old twins so I do need to try to keep costs as low as possible (more violins)
Can anyone advise the best value study pack to get through the written test? A web link would be ideal.Finally, I was thinking of getting a flight simulator for my PC. Can anyone recommend one which will help me gain skills that will be useful to me when flying in real life? Something that would help me in the areas of navigation/planning routes as well as instruments and flying in general i guess?
Sorry for the noob questions. Hope someone can help.
Dub
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Hi Dub,
Well firstly prepare for abuse from the usual suspects on here for daring to mention both low cost/cheap and PC flight simulators on this forum!
But FWIW as a mere 11 hour ppl student, I'd say you've got it spot on with getting the medical first and review your options from there. I *DO* also advocate use of a PC flight sim as a sensible learning tool, and also a cost saver. Let me explain...
I got seriously interested in flying from a friend PPL. We spent a couple of years just c*cking about with with Microsoft Flight Sim 9/X whilst linked up over the internet for fun. It taught me what all the instruments do and how they work, how to use VOR/ILS/ADF ... the list could go on and on. I also followed the tutorials on the game and learnt some of the (to me) non-intuitive basics such as controlling speed with attitude, height with throttle.
The thing to bear in mind and keep reminding yourself with PC sims is they are NOT repeat NOT teaching you how to fly. However they are teaching you the principles on which your learning can be based. There's an argument of "the law of primacy" in that if you learn it wrong yourself off a flight sim, it's very hard to then overcome that during training - and indeed even if you do, there's a tendency to revert to that first-learned (and wrong!) approach in times of stress/panic. I was aware of this from day one and so kept an open mind when simming and then getting in the cockpit for real and I genuinely believe all the sim time served me very well. When I'm paying for my flying time now, I can concentrate on learning to fly as I already know much of the physics, the instruments etc (but still always ready to listen and learn
). You can increase this effect by getting hold of e.g. the JustFlight Cessna 152 plane for the flight sim (I'd recommend Microsoft FSX) so you will even know where the guages are going to be when you get in for real, again saving you learning time.
One thing I took a while to get used to was the rudder pedals on the ground - in the air no problem, but I had to think before I pressed them when taxiing as I tended to go for the wrong one (I think it was that I was "thinking" of bike handlebars which I used a lot in my younger days, but this is the reverse of what's needed for peddles). So I took the plunge and bought a Yoke, throttle quadrant and pedals from ebay, practiced a couple of hours of taxiing at home on the sim and now it's a non-issue for me. The controllers cost about £140 - less than the cost of an hour's lesson - and when I don't need them anymore, I can probably sell them on again for the same price.
If you'd like to ask more either on the thread or PM, feel free. Good luck however it pans out for you, see you in the air
Well firstly prepare for abuse from the usual suspects on here for daring to mention both low cost/cheap and PC flight simulators on this forum!
But FWIW as a mere 11 hour ppl student, I'd say you've got it spot on with getting the medical first and review your options from there. I *DO* also advocate use of a PC flight sim as a sensible learning tool, and also a cost saver. Let me explain...
I got seriously interested in flying from a friend PPL. We spent a couple of years just c*cking about with with Microsoft Flight Sim 9/X whilst linked up over the internet for fun. It taught me what all the instruments do and how they work, how to use VOR/ILS/ADF ... the list could go on and on. I also followed the tutorials on the game and learnt some of the (to me) non-intuitive basics such as controlling speed with attitude, height with throttle.
The thing to bear in mind and keep reminding yourself with PC sims is they are NOT repeat NOT teaching you how to fly. However they are teaching you the principles on which your learning can be based. There's an argument of "the law of primacy" in that if you learn it wrong yourself off a flight sim, it's very hard to then overcome that during training - and indeed even if you do, there's a tendency to revert to that first-learned (and wrong!) approach in times of stress/panic. I was aware of this from day one and so kept an open mind when simming and then getting in the cockpit for real and I genuinely believe all the sim time served me very well. When I'm paying for my flying time now, I can concentrate on learning to fly as I already know much of the physics, the instruments etc (but still always ready to listen and learn
). You can increase this effect by getting hold of e.g. the JustFlight Cessna 152 plane for the flight sim (I'd recommend Microsoft FSX) so you will even know where the guages are going to be when you get in for real, again saving you learning time.One thing I took a while to get used to was the rudder pedals on the ground - in the air no problem, but I had to think before I pressed them when taxiing as I tended to go for the wrong one (I think it was that I was "thinking" of bike handlebars which I used a lot in my younger days, but this is the reverse of what's needed for peddles). So I took the plunge and bought a Yoke, throttle quadrant and pedals from ebay, practiced a couple of hours of taxiing at home on the sim and now it's a non-issue for me. The controllers cost about £140 - less than the cost of an hour's lesson - and when I don't need them anymore, I can probably sell them on again for the same price.
If you'd like to ask more either on the thread or PM, feel free. Good luck however it pans out for you, see you in the air
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As far as I know there is no problem in the Class 2 medical with colour blindness. Unless you are aiming for gainful employment at the front of an airliner, I think it's a non-issue.
It is a wise move to get a CLass 2 either before you start PPL training or very soon after, in case there is some issue which will prevent you getting the licence. Even if there is, you may well still be OK for the lesser requirements of the NPPL.
Ask around for a good Air doc - prices vary considerably. Mine is very reasonable but he's in Gloucestershire - PM me if you want to know.
For self study, buy the books - I used the Pratt ones. Make sure you get the latest versions - the cheaper ones on Amazon may be old stock. Don't try to get the ground study out of the way before you start flying - you will need practical experience to marry with the theory.
Opinions vary about FS. I never really used one before I started flying, though I had loads of RC model flying experience which was (and remains) very valuable. Some people rate FS for Instrument rating training. My feeling is that for PPL training, FS would do no harm, but not much good. either.
Go and see more than one local flying school. You will be spending a good deal of money with them and it's important they make you feel comfortable. Don't pay them in advance. If they have a good deal on pre-paid hours which you really want, pay with a credit card.
Have fun! It's supposed to be fun!
It is a wise move to get a CLass 2 either before you start PPL training or very soon after, in case there is some issue which will prevent you getting the licence. Even if there is, you may well still be OK for the lesser requirements of the NPPL.
Ask around for a good Air doc - prices vary considerably. Mine is very reasonable but he's in Gloucestershire - PM me if you want to know.
For self study, buy the books - I used the Pratt ones. Make sure you get the latest versions - the cheaper ones on Amazon may be old stock. Don't try to get the ground study out of the way before you start flying - you will need practical experience to marry with the theory.
Opinions vary about FS. I never really used one before I started flying, though I had loads of RC model flying experience which was (and remains) very valuable. Some people rate FS for Instrument rating training. My feeling is that for PPL training, FS would do no harm, but not much good. either.
Go and see more than one local flying school. You will be spending a good deal of money with them and it's important they make you feel comfortable. Don't pay them in advance. If they have a good deal on pre-paid hours which you really want, pay with a credit card.
Have fun! It's supposed to be fun!
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Colour blind just means you can't fly at night. Which isn't any real problem for a pleasure pilot.
Right sims. I am a reasonably experenced instructor and in my experence they do more harm than good until you have been taught properly what to do.
They are good for practising instruments and the like but fall down on the visual flying skills.
It means the instructor has a blank sheet of paper to work with instead of having to erase bad habits as they go along if you don't use one.
Right sims. I am a reasonably experenced instructor and in my experence they do more harm than good until you have been taught properly what to do.
They are good for practising instruments and the like but fall down on the visual flying skills.
It means the instructor has a blank sheet of paper to work with instead of having to erase bad habits as they go along if you don't use one.
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Thanks for the replies guys. My main use for the flight sim would really be to become more familiar with instruments, radio, etc. I fly radio control planes and flew flight sims a lot as a kid so the damage there has already been done . I will look in to getting fsx, the justflight cessna 152 and control columns but will keep in mind I am not actually learning to fly.
Anyone know how much I should be looking to pay for the books and what they are called? Also, what is a reasonable price for the class 2 medical?
I live close to Redhill Aerodrome so will check out the schools there.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply and not biting my head off nreally appreciate it. Kolossi thanks so much for offering to take my questions via pm. Seriously appreciate that
Dub
. I will look in to getting fsx, the justflight cessna 152 and control columns but will keep in mind I am not actually learning to fly.Anyone know how much I should be looking to pay for the books and what they are called? Also, what is a reasonable price for the class 2 medical?
I live close to Redhill Aerodrome so will check out the schools there.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply and not biting my head off
nreally appreciate it. Kolossi thanks so much for offering to take my questions via pm. Seriously appreciate that Dub
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Hi Dubcat, Firstly, i wish you well with your training, i would advise you to have a trip to your local flying club to ask them which books they would recommend. Secondly, the fsx flight sim is one i use, there are add ons you can install that are excellent such as VFR actual photo scenery, something that is very helpful, esppecially in your early stages of flight training. good luck.
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A lot of people fail the Isihara test, but that test doesn't test colour vision in any meaningful manner. Its only plus is that the equipment is dirt cheap.
There are a few other tests, of which the Wright-Holmes Lantern test is regarded as the only one which means anything much (according to the CAA-sponsored study which I probably have somewhere). You can easily fail the Isihara almost totally but get 100% in the W-H LT.
And you need to pass the CV test only once and that is good till you die, worldwide. (Obviously it isn't good after you die).
No CV means no night flight but you can still get the IMC Rating, and I have heard you can get an IR too (with a no-commercial restriction).
Go for it.
There are a few other tests, of which the Wright-Holmes Lantern test is regarded as the only one which means anything much (according to the CAA-sponsored study which I probably have somewhere). You can easily fail the Isihara almost totally but get 100% in the W-H LT.
And you need to pass the CV test only once and that is good till you die, worldwide. (Obviously it isn't good after you die).
No CV means no night flight but you can still get the IMC Rating, and I have heard you can get an IR too (with a no-commercial restriction).
Go for it.
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Thanks for the encouragement guys. I am gutted that i was told as a kid that failing the isihara test meant I could not plan to have a career in aviation. I was only 12 at the time so did not gave the sense to find out more. My fault 
. Goes to show what the devastating power of a little misinformation is
Thanks to some emails from some very helpful people in this thread I have started learning some of the phraseology and will book a medical exam in the next few weeks.
The encouragement in this thread is fantastic. I had initially thought I would only want to fly around the UK. However after reading some of your other posts and websites etc it sounds like flights in to Europe are achievable and fun so i am going to go for ppl rather than nppl if the medical permits. The biggest hurdle to all of this is cost. I'll deal with that one when i have to though.
Dub
. Goes to show what the devastating power of a little misinformation is Thanks to some emails from some very helpful people in this thread I have started learning some of the phraseology and will book a medical exam in the next few weeks.
The encouragement in this thread is fantastic. I had initially thought I would only want to fly around the UK. However after reading some of your other posts and websites etc it sounds like flights in to Europe are achievable and fun so i am going to go for ppl rather than nppl if the medical permits
. The biggest hurdle to all of this is cost. I'll deal with that one when i have to though. Dub
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Its the being over familar with the instruments thats the main issue with FX pilots. After you get onto the nav stage of training there isn't such an issue due to the fact the instructor will have already got you doing what you should be doing for the basic flying skills.
I hope I don't come across as a meanie its just very common to have to "sort out" FX students because they love looking at instruments and are actually pretty good at flying on instruments. BTW as I normally fly instruments in my day job I am just as bad at doing the same which is why I prefer to be in the RHS when flying a SEP because there are none on that side for me to fixate on. It knocks me out of my instrument head mode quicker.
I hope I don't come across as a meanie its just very common to have to "sort out" FX students because they love looking at instruments and are actually pretty good at flying on instruments. BTW as I normally fly instruments in my day job I am just as bad at doing the same which is why I prefer to be in the RHS when flying a SEP because there are none on that side for me to fixate on. It knocks me out of my instrument head mode quicker.
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I don't think a sim is useful for an ab initio PPL.
The scenery may be reasonably realistic today but the control feedback remains poor.
You will get more out of a RHS flight with somebody.
You will get a load more out of some ground school with an experienced pilot, followed by some real planned flights from A to B. Without this (which almost nobody does in the PPL because it costs £££) the PPL training can easily appear far removed from reality and certainly far removed from having any fun
A sim is very good for instrument flight; worth every penny and much more. FS2000 saved me £thousands on the IMCR. But even there one must have ground school. There is no point in flying any procedure unless the procedure is 100% understood on paper, first. I did not use any sim practice for the IR because the flying did not require any additional knowledge or skills beyond the IMCR.
The scenery may be reasonably realistic today but the control feedback remains poor.
You will get more out of a RHS flight with somebody.
You will get a load more out of some ground school with an experienced pilot, followed by some real planned flights from A to B. Without this (which almost nobody does in the PPL because it costs £££) the PPL training can easily appear far removed from reality and certainly far removed from having any fun
A sim is very good for instrument flight; worth every penny and much more. FS2000 saved me £thousands on the IMCR. But even there one must have ground school. There is no point in flying any procedure unless the procedure is 100% understood on paper, first. I did not use any sim practice for the IR because the flying did not require any additional knowledge or skills beyond the IMCR.
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Dubcat,
I learnt to fly at Cubair at Redhill they were very good and as cheap as you can expect in the UK they set me in good stead and now I'm flying commercial seaplanes in Australia. The chief pilot was a bit of a ****, flew A320's and thought he was gods gift but everything else was really good. My only mistake was learning on the Katanna when there was a Piper cub sitting idol, I later found out how much more fun tail wheel was.
Redhill has a great atmosphere about it, I miss the place, you will spend some time not flying due to wet runways, but so what just enjoy it, you are in no hurry.
I learnt to fly at Cubair at Redhill they were very good and as cheap as you can expect in the UK they set me in good stead and now I'm flying commercial seaplanes in Australia. The chief pilot was a bit of a ****, flew A320's and thought he was gods gift but everything else was really good. My only mistake was learning on the Katanna when there was a Piper cub sitting idol, I later found out how much more fun tail wheel was.
Redhill has a great atmosphere about it, I miss the place, you will spend some time not flying due to wet runways, but so what just enjoy it, you are in no hurry.
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Understood guys. I will play the flight sim for fun and try not to stay instrument fixated when I finally do get up in a plane. I guess i need to unlearn more than that since i fly r/c plane too
I starting out by reading up as much as possible on the language used with the tower etc. Its all fascinating and one very kind chap in particular has emailed me a bunch of stuff i can get on with reading.
Dub.
Ps I have even had an offer of a flight from a retired gentleman who is not too far from me. Once again the generosity of people on this forum is mind-blowing.
I starting out by reading up as much as possible on the language used with the tower etc. Its all fascinating and one very kind chap in particular has emailed me a bunch of stuff i can get on with reading.
Dub.
Ps I have even had an offer of a flight from a retired gentleman who is not too far from me. Once again the generosity of people on this forum is mind-blowing.
