Logbook hours
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
I'm sure that it is also a legal requirement to keep a personal logbook (for 2 years after the last entry) - however, flight time MUST be recorded from chocks-away to chocks-under. That is irrefutable. The remaining question is whether decimal time is acceptable or whether hours and minutes 'must' be used.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: England
BEagle, I think you will find that the time that has to be recorded in the UK is Brakes-off to Brakes-on, or more accurately (because not all aircraft have brakes): From the moment the aircraft first moves under its own power with the intention of flight, until it stops moving under its own power following flight. Chocks-away to chocks-under could often be, say, ten minutes longer than this.
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Currently Dubai
BEagle:
Is there any official document stating how flights must be logged? I have searched JAR and CAA and can find nothing official. As it seems that there are many (even in UK) who log using Hobbs metred time, it would be very useful if you could provide a link to an official regulation on this (please).
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: sanjosebaz ]
That is irrefutable
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: sanjosebaz ]
Joined: May 1999
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Firstly, 'chocks away' is easier to write than 'when the aeroplane first moves under its own power with the intention of taxying for take-off'.
The definition I use is the one in CAP 407.
The definition I use is the one in CAP 407.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 70
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From: UK
I can see how it all gets very confusing for poor flying clubs.
I have always logged in hours/mins to the nearest five mins (it balances over time.) If anyone has a problem with something as simple as adding up minutes then how the F$£* do you manage to use a wizz wheel or calculate for drift???!!! - hope the batteries never go in your GPS!!
Seriously, it is frustrating when you log in hours and minutes chock to chock (I believe thats whats supposed to happen) but hire aircraft on the hobbs meter (unless some devient has wired it to the master!!!). A lot of people can't relate to the difference and the need to note both.
Add tacho into the equation and you get one big bunch of confused pilots (easily done, apparently)
I have recently looked at a great little gizmo that records hobbs, tacho, engine start/stop, brakes etc and feeds it all by remote to a terminal attached to your PC - perhaps the answer to pilots who can't count in minutes, can't use a calculator, never learnt to use a clock, Americans, Kiwi's, those who can't read simple tech log instructions.....etc......etc.....
I have always logged in hours/mins to the nearest five mins (it balances over time.) If anyone has a problem with something as simple as adding up minutes then how the F$£* do you manage to use a wizz wheel or calculate for drift???!!! - hope the batteries never go in your GPS!!
Seriously, it is frustrating when you log in hours and minutes chock to chock (I believe thats whats supposed to happen) but hire aircraft on the hobbs meter (unless some devient has wired it to the master!!!). A lot of people can't relate to the difference and the need to note both.
Add tacho into the equation and you get one big bunch of confused pilots (easily done, apparently)
I have recently looked at a great little gizmo that records hobbs, tacho, engine start/stop, brakes etc and feeds it all by remote to a terminal attached to your PC - perhaps the answer to pilots who can't count in minutes, can't use a calculator, never learnt to use a clock, Americans, Kiwi's, those who can't read simple tech log instructions.....etc......etc.....
Joined: May 1999
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Bit harsh, Jeepster!
All he's saying is yes, it's confusing to have to record flight time as the time between the start of taxiing for take-off and the completion of taxiing after landing - but to be billed for 'Hobbs Time'. He also makes the valid point that, if someone can't cope with adding hours and minutes, it's difficult to believe that they can cope with the maths required for even PPL navigation.
I'm sure the racial stereotyping was tongue-in-cheek......at least I hope so!
[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
All he's saying is yes, it's confusing to have to record flight time as the time between the start of taxiing for take-off and the completion of taxiing after landing - but to be billed for 'Hobbs Time'. He also makes the valid point that, if someone can't cope with adding hours and minutes, it's difficult to believe that they can cope with the maths required for even PPL navigation.
I'm sure the racial stereotyping was tongue-in-cheek......at least I hope so!
[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
Its all about simplicity, only the Brits know how to make things much more complicated than they need to be. But you're right. you can't teach an old dog new tricks, so you keep logging in Hours and minutes, and we'll stick to our trusty old, simple decimal hours !
Got to run now, its 18.5 and I have to be in the pub at 19.25
[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: englishal ]
Got to run now, its 18.5 and I have to be in the pub at 19.25
[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: englishal ]
Joined: May 1999
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Did it say '18.5' on your watch englishal, or '18:30'?
Decimal minutes indeed! Feet, inches and real hours and minutes got the US to the moon, what happened after that to change things??
Decimal minutes indeed! Feet, inches and real hours and minutes got the US to the moon, what happened after that to change things??
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Yorkshire
Hey Beagle, want it the fact that the Yanks at NASA wrote some software to work in feet and inches rather then metres and centimetres which caused one of their satellites to trash itself??? 
Personally I couldn't really care what systems people used to log their hours. Its a case of each to his own and it will all balance out at the end of the day, after all its not an exact science anyway.
Julian.
Personally I couldn't really care what systems people used to log their hours. Its a case of each to his own and it will all balance out at the end of the day, after all its not an exact science anyway.
Julian.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 9
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From: somewhere
Just WHAT is all the fuss about?
Minutes....decimal....who cares?!
I hold F.I and ATPL and I choose to log in decimal because it is EASIER.........does that make me dumb as many of you seem to suggest?
Come on guy's, lighten up a little
Minutes....decimal....who cares?!
I hold F.I and ATPL and I choose to log in decimal because it is EASIER.........does that make me dumb as many of you seem to suggest?
Come on guy's, lighten up a little
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
Hey,
A decimal watch ! what a good idea.....
Yea, NASA crashed one of their Mars probes as they got mixed up between m/s and feet/s, so it entered Mars's atmosphere a bit faster than expected and hence destroyed inself !
Yep I agree, each to their own !
See yer
EA
A decimal watch ! what a good idea.....
Yea, NASA crashed one of their Mars probes as they got mixed up between m/s and feet/s, so it entered Mars's atmosphere a bit faster than expected and hence destroyed inself !
Yep I agree, each to their own !
See yer
EA
