28 day rule
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not backing an unconditional 28 day club/school currency rule but speaking as someone who used to hire out a plane for a few years, and have a collection of stories as long as your arm to tell about some of the characters I "met" (undoubtedly already posted here) there is a clear need to enforce a certain minimum level of pilot currency.
If I flew just once a month, I would be a hopeless pilot. OTOH I accept that if somebody just flies along the coast and back on a sunny Sunday, in a simple C152, 1/month is possibly OK for currency. And I know a lot of PPLs do only that.
I would not agree that the club should pay for that; it would be a massive expense for them, and it is the pilot who benefits totally, in currency, in collecting logbook entries, and he gets a flight out of it, hopefully somewhere purposeful.
Flying is not a super expensive hobby but equally it cannot be played right down in the gutter, and a lot of people refuse to accept that.
If I flew just once a month, I would be a hopeless pilot. OTOH I accept that if somebody just flies along the coast and back on a sunny Sunday, in a simple C152, 1/month is possibly OK for currency. And I know a lot of PPLs do only that.
I would not agree that the club should pay for that; it would be a massive expense for them, and it is the pilot who benefits totally, in currency, in collecting logbook entries, and he gets a flight out of it, hopefully somewhere purposeful.
Flying is not a super expensive hobby but equally it cannot be played right down in the gutter, and a lot of people refuse to accept that.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Londonish
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Airpolice, I meant to point out in my earlier post that when I'm not *compelled* to take an instructor, I often welcome the chance - I'm past the point of caring about getting 'solo' hours, definitely not 'afraid' of having an instructor along, and it can be *made* useful - last time I had a gap, I called them for a checkride, and we went and did some fun stuff - farm strips and the like. 3 times around the circuit for the point of form is a different matter. Also, really one GA piston single doesn't fly that much different from another. I can't see one good reason for treating the DR400/PA-38 separately. What happens if you fly someone else's aircraft in the meantime? They're not complex aircraft, they don't need type ratings, etc, we're not talking about airline flying here! Basically, I don't think anyone would disagree with reasonable currency, but..
As for flying every four weekends - there are many reasons; weather, work, travel, life, other interests. Sometimes I'll fly more, sometimes less. Just the way it is.
As for flying every four weekends - there are many reasons; weather, work, travel, life, other interests. Sometimes I'll fly more, sometimes less. Just the way it is.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: flatlands
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some questions from a relative beginner to the "Perfect pliots" on this thread - the ones who never want or need a check ride.
If you own an aircraft, presumably you would be happy to allow anybody to fly it regardless of experience, demonstrated skill in the prevailing conditions or of currency?
If somebody offers to take your loved ones for a flight, will you be happy for them to go regardless of the experience, skill or currency of the pilot?
If the answer is "no" to either of the above then presumably you would have to allow that some people DO need check rides sometimes?( although , obviously not you......
)
Everybody is different - what is a rip off to you could be a lifesaver for others - and their passengers.
In general, to promote the blanket view that all check rides are a rip off may deprive pilots of a valuable aid to safety - after all, who is going to volunteer for a rip off - even if they need one!?
If you own an aircraft, presumably you would be happy to allow anybody to fly it regardless of experience, demonstrated skill in the prevailing conditions or of currency?
If somebody offers to take your loved ones for a flight, will you be happy for them to go regardless of the experience, skill or currency of the pilot?
If the answer is "no" to either of the above then presumably you would have to allow that some people DO need check rides sometimes?( although , obviously not you......
)Everybody is different - what is a rip off to you could be a lifesaver for others - and their passengers.
In general, to promote the blanket view that all check rides are a rip off may deprive pilots of a valuable aid to safety - after all, who is going to volunteer for a rip off - even if they need one!?
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I book an aircraft and an instructor for one circuit to keep current I pay them for fifteen minutes. If I hadn't had to do that they could have sold that slot to someone who wanted a full hour's lesson
Definitely makes it worthwhile making the effort to head out to the airfield before then - even if's it's just to do a single circuit.
As a matter of interest, does anyone practice PFLs on their own?
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Dorking, England
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
does anyone practice PFLs on their own?
The 28 day rule can be a pain but I wouldn't want to drive just once a month and then head out onto the motorway.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
My club has a 45 day rule. Go over that and it's a full hour with an instructor - PFLs, the works!
And flying elsewhere counts for club currency. Flying anything elsewhere counts. I once relied on this rule when the only flying I'd done in the last several weeks had been on floats ... the resulting crosswind landing wasn't very pretty.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Londonish
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some questions from a relative beginner to the "Perfect pliots" on this thread - the ones who never want or need a check ride.
If you own an aircraft, presumably you would be happy to allow anybody to fly it regardless of experience, demonstrated skill in the prevailing conditions or of currency?
If somebody offers to take your loved ones for a flight, will you be happy for them to go regardless of the experience, skill or currency of the pilot?
If somebody offers to take your loved ones for a flight, will you be happy for them to go regardless of the experience, skill or currency of the pilot?
If the answer is "no" to either of the above then presumably you would have to allow that some people DO need check rides sometimes?( although , obviously not you......)
Everybody is different - what is a rip off to you could be a lifesaver for others - and their passengers.
In general, to promote the blanket view that all check rides are a rip off may deprive pilots of a valuable aid to safety - after all, who is going to volunteer for a rip off - even if they need one!?
Everybody is different - what is a rip off to you could be a lifesaver for others - and their passengers.
In general, to promote the blanket view that all check rides are a rip off may deprive pilots of a valuable aid to safety - after all, who is going to volunteer for a rip off - even if they need one!?
Everyone needs a check ride now and then, even if they are current. Ideally check rides are something you request; I'd suggest the time to worry is when someone stops you on the way to the aircraft and says "Oi you, not before a check ride" Perhaps time to wonder why you hadn't already asked for one (or why you fly with that club/group)?
Passengers are another matter - personally, I have a currency I'll happily fly at solo, whilst the currency requirement to have a non-pilot along is rather higher. At the former I'm confident I have can conduct the flight safely. At the latter, I intend to be able to do the same whilst managing and explaining things to someone who may be nervous, airsick, or interrupting at inappropriate times.
Yes, I practise PFL's, though not as often as I ought. I'll put it on the list for next time I fly. Gertrude's place sounds much more like what I'd expect.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: flatlands
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mark1234
Thanks for your thoughts. There is little that i would disagree with but you speak as a pilot with judgement and you would look after yourself and your dearest using this judgement.
I suppose that I was thinking of how flying could be safe for the potential passengers (who do not have the experience to make this judgement) flying with the
If these pilots are to carry passengers, and I can't see how they can reasonably be stopped, then a 28 day checkride can help rather than ....
At my club, pilots become eligible for a checkride after 28 days but get one at the discretion of the CFI -the decision seems to be influenced by experience, attitude & judgement of the pilot & also the prevailing wind/weather if they want to fly after ( especially with pax)- as well as days since last flight.
Apologies to all for any perceived ridicule - was supposed to be facetious enough not to offend....
Thanks for your thoughts. There is little that i would disagree with but you speak as a pilot with judgement and you would look after yourself and your dearest using this judgement.
I suppose that I was thinking of how flying could be safe for the potential passengers (who do not have the experience to make this judgement) flying with the
To put it simply: I know pilots I'd not send my dearest up with, no matter how current....
I'd suggest there's a case to argue that it might be detrimental to safety. It might just engender a mindset of "I've done a check so I must be OK", rather than an objective assessment of whether you are OK.
Apologies to all for any perceived ridicule - was supposed to be facetious enough not to offend....
Moderator
Not regardless. I regard experience, skill, and more importantly judgement rather more than currency. To put it simply: I know pilots I'd not send my dearest up with, no matter how current, and pilots who I'd send them with even if they'd not flown in a good few months. The first category may abide by every rule in the place, but have no insight or judgement. The latter I trust to exercise judgement, not only IN the air, but in deciding whether to take to the air. I've certainly never met a pilot I'd send them with at 27 days, and not at 29. Nor anyone where 3 circuits with an instructor would change my decision.
Presuming that most flying clubs operate in the UK, as most clubs of any sort operate anywhere, they are run by a group of directors, (who generally seem to put in more than their fair share of the work anyway). As such, the club will run within the bounds of simply sustainably possible, regulatorily compliant and safe. There are many ways to accomplish this. But above all, a club, like a business, be it for profit or not, will not sustain itself with no members or clients. If a club's rules are acceptable to enough of its members/clients that is the "norm" for that club, and others who choose to participate will have to accept that. I don't think anyone is being forced to rent aircraft, are they?
In my experience, both with the club where I learned to fly decades ago, and other organizatons whose aircraft I have flown since, there seems to be some wisdom and latitude applied to currency, once the baseline skills and total experience of the renter pilot are understood. At the point where I had about 200 hours total time, the club from which I rented authorized me to declare myself current on any of their aircraft, and check rides were no longer required. There was certainly an expectation that I kept myself current, but a number of days was not a part of that.
I would agree with all who say that a pilot who flies 10 hour a year is not current or safe without close supervision. If you fly 50 hours a year, and miss six weeks, I don't think safety is being compromised. I think that those pilots who resist checkrides need to consider the situation from the other perspective. The custodian of the aircraft will have a lot of explaining to do if a pilot whose currency they did not confirm, is involved in an accident.
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The custodian of the aircraft will have a lot of explaining to do if a pilot whose currency they did not confirm, is involved in an accident.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: London
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't want to drive just once a month and then head out onto the motorway
Do I think that is dangerous? Does it take time to get back into it? Absolutely not! I have been driving for 40 years.
Flying is different - mainly because I'm far more inexperienced. The important thing is to gain experience - not the number of days between flights. I find that I need to fly quite often if I haven't flown for six months or so. Two months and been flying regularly before that? I'm much more with it. You don't loose your skills that quickly. Hence you have the CAA rule for taking passengers - 3 take offs and lands in the last 90 days. There is much more wisdom in that that the 28 day rule. (The CAA rule is based on safety - the club rule is based on financial considerations)
