To the glider muppets who ruined the Reds display at Silverstone.

[John G]

Major Gliding Competition Including Cross-country Rte.
Intense Activity Wi 5nm Radius 5155n 00108w (bicester Ad). Up To 80
Gliders And 8 Tug Acft May Participate. Gliders Will Normally Opr
Blw Inversion Lvl Or Btn The Tops Of Any Cu Clouds And 500ft Agl And
Avoid Controlled Airspace Unless A Prior Clr Has Been Obtained.
After Launch Many Gliders May Be Concentrated Just Downwind Of The
Site Or On The First Leg Of The Cross-country Rte. For Info On Rte
For The Day And Likely Etd Contact Glider Contest Ctl Tel
07711844345 Or 01869 252493. Rtf 130.125mhz.
10-08-0274/as 2.

[airborne_artist]

Quote:
AIRCRAFT WILL BE UNABLE TO COMPLY WITH RULES OF THE AIR
Why?

(And some extra chacters for the nanny.)

Some yachts-people also think they are absolved from the rules, too, and also have trouble with knowing their position, reading charts, understanding tides etc., and have the added advantage of expecting that the RNLI is at zero minutes readiness to haul them off rocks/mud/sandbanks etc.

Similarly cyclists often go up one-way streets the wrong way, overtake un-safely in traffic etc.

Something in the psyche of these people who move without an engine?

[chrisN]

Oversteer's "NOTAM" is a spoof - adulterated from the real one - as far as I can see.

Clue - his emoticon.

Chris N.

[airborne_artist]

UP TO 80 GLIDERS AND 8 TUG ACFT MAY PARTICIPATE.
GLIDERS WILL NORMALLY OPR BLW INVERSION LVL OR BTN THE TOPS
OF ANY CU CLOUDS AND (IF AN INSTRUCTOR WATCHING) 500FT AGL.
AIRCRAFT WILL BE UNABLE TO COMPLY WITH RULES OF THE AIR.

Doh! Love it, though

[CapeCodCowboy]

C'mon guys!
Did anyone actually read the spoof??

Bit of a worry if you pay such a scant regard to the real NOTAM's!!

[goldeneaglepilot]

Have a look at the competition website, it seems to carry the briefing from Sunday.

22 Aug 2010

Start/Finish 130.125

QNE 180ft 1023Mb

Prohibited:

Weston On The Green

Hinton in the Hedges

Sibson

Langar

Nav Warnings:

Silverstone 6nm radius, 12:50-13:30 Local time, otherwise 3nm radius

Northampton/Sywell 3nm

Hot Air Balloons Northampton

Wyton 3nm

First possible launch: 11:00

Soaring Spot - juniors2010 - task

BNW Bicester NW6.2km125°To Next Point, R=5.0km, Angle=180°BLY Bletchley34.6km080°Symmetrical, Rmin=1640ft, Rmax=20.0km, Angle=90°, Cylinder R=1640ftOUN Oundle56.8km017°Symmetrical, Rmin=1640ft, Rmax=20.0km, Angle=90°, Cylinder R=1640ftCAX Caxton Gibbet37.7km139°Symmetrical, Rmin=1640ft, Rmax=20.0km, Angle=90°, Cylinder R=1640ftBC1 Bicester Finish78.0km244°Cylinder R=1969ft

It is a bit scant to say the least, but should have been checked / cross referenced by the pilots, Its a great shame that the organisers did not set the first point of the triangle further south (according to their published map) I hope that the pilots did use a proper map and not the one published on the website......

[dont overfil]

#13 Ah!
DO. or should it be Doh.

[RatherBeFlying]

I have yet to see a glider pilot who sat down behind an internet terminal to check METARs, TAFs, NOTAMs or anything else that we consider standard practice in powered flying.

This glider pilot does check NOTAMs before heading out to the field and when internet is down phones for a briefing. Yes, many glider training curricula don't cover NOTAMs, but in the process of gaining an IR, the habit was beaten into my brain.

Instead of METARs and TAFs, cross country glider pilots use graphic weather websites tailored for the glider community. If it's a half decent XC day, it's serious VFR

I characterise many glider clubs as environments where wonderful, nice people will cheerfully and unknowingly set you up to kill yourself

The contest organisers in this case are one of many such examples. The pilots assumed that the organisers had properly researched the situation.

A question for the pros: Do you check the weather and NOTAMs yourself or simply accept what dispatch hands you?

[mary meagher]

For your information, of 44 young glider pilots (under the age of 25, I believe) taking part in Sunday's task at the Junior Nationals, 22 managed to avoid busting the Red Arrows Airspace. The rest received major penalties, with many having minus scores.

Sadly, it looks more and more that good cross country days are going to be scarce this week. Most gliding competitions are planned for nine days, looking ahead, you may want to keep an eye out on Saturday.

Cambridge Gliding Club is also holding a Regional Competition. They have flown one day so far.

Lasham, near Alton, is holding two competitions, and so far have not managed to fly at all.

Its enough to make you weep, contending with UK weather.

However, in June, Husbands Bosworth and Bidford were fortunate. Their
competitions resulted in NINE DAYS OF CROSS COUNTRY DELIGHT!

That's why we do it, I guess.

Backpacker, your comments on flying in Holland fill me with pity and alarm.

I presume you share your gliding site with power traffic at a controlled airfield, thereby needing to turn on transponders, hold a radio license, and be qualified to respond to requests for airfield information.

And you say you have never seen a glider pilot sitting down at the computer before flying to check NOTAMS and weather? Well, we do exactly that on a regular basis, we are, however, lucky enough to fly at a dedicated gliding field.

As for use of transponders in gliders, can you imagine the enroute controller faced with 23 returns as the gaggles follow each other and share thermals, up to 15 or 20,( usually no more than 2 at any one level, however) in a good climb? The sky is quite big enough and we do take good care to observe thermal discipline.

Flarm seems to be helpful in gliders, this may be the more useful tool for
collision avoidance.

[gijoe]

'For your information, of 44 young glider pilots (under the age of 25, I believe) taking part in Sunday's task at the Junior Nationals, 22 managed to avoid busting the Red Arrows Airspace.'

Mary,

Are you saying 22 didn't manage to avoid it?

If not, I think the competition organisers and pilots need to be chased to the Courts by the CAA. That is their job, right?

This year there have been competition runners on the south side of Old Sarum on more occasions that I want to say 'near miss'.

One spent the time bleating about 'I am in sink, I am in sink, I think I am going to have to come in...' on 123.2

Don't worry about those freefall parachutists above you then as per the NOTAM!!

It really is big stick time for some glider pilots.

[gpn01]

Originally Posted by gijoe

'For your information, of 44 young glider pilots (under the age of 25, I believe) taking part in Sunday's task at the Junior Nationals, 22 managed to avoid busting the Red Arrows Airspace.'

Mary,

Are you saying 22 didn't manage to avoid it?

If not, I think the competition organisers and pilots need to be chased to the Courts by the CAA. That is their job, right?

This year there have been competition runners on the south side of Old Sarum on more occasions that I want to say 'near miss'.

One spent the time bleating about 'I am in sink, I am in sink, I think I am going to have to come in...' on 123.2

Don't worry about those freefall parachutists above you then as per the NOTAM!!

It really is big stick time for some glider pilots.

And while the big stick is out maybe it should apply also to the 423 other airspace infringements that have been reported by NATS so far this year (very few, if any, I believe were by gliders)?

Lets use the same big stick whenever a NOTAM is incorrectly put onto the AIS site.

Lets use the stick whenever GA traffic enters an ATZ which is technically active but from whom a resposne on the radio wasn't obtained (e.g. some military airfields at weekends).

Use the stick for any traffic that flies at 1000' over a gliding site that's on the half mil chart ?

How about a big stick for imprecise RT which isn't consistent with CAP413?

And a big stick for anyone who damages an aircraft on landing (as they're presumably done something wrong).

Another big stick for any pilot who clearly hasn't read the NIOTAMs and is asked by ATC if theyr'e aware of something that's in their way?

The list of opportunities to apply a big stick grows and grows and before you know it we'll all be grounded. I'm not suggesting this as a reason for not adhereing to NOTAM's etc. but I am mindful that everyone is capable of making a mistake and we need to ensure that lessons are learned. OK, if someone keeps making mistakes then I agree they need retraining or ultimately grounding.

[JohnR-K]

NOTAMS

At our gliding club there is a formal briefing before each day's flying. The duty instructor will draw the attention of every pilot to the NOTAMS within 50km of the club. The DI also warns any pilots who are going beyond this to check NOTAMS for themselves and to discuss their plans with them. The same or similar has been true at all the gliding clubs I have visited.

Copies of the day's NOTAMS are pinned to a dedicated noticeboard and in the launch cabin.

[Miroku]

I am flying in the competition at Bicester, and I busted the airspace pretty badly, along with 22 others.

This from pgscott who was one of the offenders. So no, there weren't 22 offenders, there were 23!

I'm surprised they all managed to miss seeing 9 red jets spewing out red, white and blue smoke! And not come to the possible reason!

[flybymike]

The list of opportunities to apply a big stick grows and grows and before you know it we'll all be grounded.

Well said . There is a danger of us all turning into Vigilantes here. Lets not forget no one deliberately sets out to infringe and we are all capable of making mistakes including Gijoe.

[FREDAcheck]

If not, I think the competition organisers and pilots need to be chased to the Courts by the CAA. That is their job, right?

Don't think so. Their job is to help prevent things going wrong. As a last resort, they might take people to court for particularly serious offences. And by "serious" I don't mean thath the consequences are serious, but that the offence was the result of major negligence or deliberate breach. Punishment is rather shutting the stable door, and (in general) has rather less deterrent effect than Hang 'em and flog 'em people would like.

There are only 3 types of pilots:

1. those that make mistakes and admit it
2. those that make mistakes and don't admit it
3. those that make mistakes and don't know it

Every mistake looks after the event like a grievous and wilful crime for which death is too slight a punishment. In this case, it looks like a combination of lack of thought by both organisers and pilots.

Of course it shouldn't happen. But it does. And those that don't believe that they could ever do something like that are just possibly in my type 3 above.

[ShyTorque]

A question for the pros: Do you check the weather and NOTAMs yourself or simply accept what dispatch hands you?

Dispatch? That's me; so I always check NOTAMS myself.

I read through the lot, using the AIS website. Note that I do NOT rely on "clever" third party graphic displays, either. Any mistake or omission is then between myself and the AIS.

Experience has proved to me that the greater the number of links in the chain, the greater the likelihood of a weak link existing.

This incident has proved just that!

[eharding]

Hmmm - on the face of it, we may be in for a Red vs. Glider rematch tomorrow:

NOTAMs EGTT-H3505/10 & EGTT-H3786/10

Of course, the route lines only interpolate between the stated transit waypoints, but with 80 gliders in the vicinity, I'd assume the Reds will be steering well clear of the place.

[Crash951]

I doubt it. From the link you posted the Reds' transit is due to start at 09:24 and end at 10:05 - I seriously doubt if any of the Bicester competition pilots will be airborne at that time.

[BackPacker]

Backpacker, your comments on flying in Holland fill me with pity and alarm.

I presume you share your gliding site with power traffic at a controlled airfield, thereby needing to turn on transponders, hold a radio license, and be qualified to respond to requests for airfield information.

This is a dedicated glider site. No powered flying except for the home-based motorglider. But Holland is a TMZ for all things flying, from 1200' up. There may be a Transponder-not-mandatory zone around the glider site, but that only applies to non-transponder-equipped gliders. If the glider has a transponder (and the clubs aircraft all do) it needs to be turned on in flight. (To be precise, it needs to be turned on at the top of the launch, and turned to standby after landing - as per the AIC.)

No, you don't technically need a radio license to use the fields radio frequency, but I did not see getting a radio license encouraged, even for pilots who were ready for serious x-country work.

As for use of transponders in gliders, can you imagine the enroute controller faced with 23 returns as the gaggles follow each other and share thermals, up to 15 or 20,( usually no more than 2 at any one level, however) in a good climb? The sky is quite big enough and we do take good care to observe thermal discipline.

When Mode-S was first introduced (and made mandatory) in the Netherlands this was indeed a significant problem. Loads of VFR returns which conflicted with the relevant IFR returns. Much has been said about this then, but all ATC units now have filters in place to filter out all 7000 returns (just show the primary return, not the secundary data block), or anything above/below a certain height.

But even without those filters, if ATC were to call me and report "traffic is multiple gliders from your 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock, three miles, lowest at XXX, highest at YYY" I'd be happy and take some action. I don't need to know the individual position and altitude of all 23 of them.

But a transponder is not just used by ATC. There's also TCAS and, increasingly popular, PCAS. Both which require transponders to be active.

Flarm seems to be helpful in gliders, this may be the more useful tool for collision avoidance.

Flarm seems to be used excusively in the glider world. Pity, since it's a lovely tool - although the range and sensitivity probably need to be increased if it were to work for fast-moving aircraft. But international regulations and aircraft certification requirements will probably prevent it from getting widespread adoption outside the glider world.

However, this seems to be a very interesting unit. Now if they would only make the transponder receiver directional such as the Zaon XRX, and interfaceable with a GNS430 or similar...

PowerFLARM

[Jan Olieslagers]

<<off-topic>>
FLARM is a commercial product offered by a private company. Their prime interests are financial.

ISTR a rant about expensive mandatory software upgrades, but am unsure of details; neither did I find any in a brief web search.