MATZ Penetration? How to....
Guest
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MATZ Penetration? How to....
Hi,
I was wondering what the procedure is for flying through a MATZ.
As I have not been showed how to do this by an instructor I was wondering if anyone could inform me of the details of the procedure. Is it just a normal en route call but instead of initially calling "XX This is G-XXXX requesting Flight Information Service"...you call "XX this is G-XXXX requesting Matz penetration"?
I understand this is flown on the MATZ aerodrome QFE, can this present en route problems I.E messing with your PLOG? Do you have to give ETA's? and can you have normal Flight Information Services?
Do you just call the station, get the clearance and then report back to previous frequency?
Thank you for your help.
Doc
I was wondering what the procedure is for flying through a MATZ.
As I have not been showed how to do this by an instructor I was wondering if anyone could inform me of the details of the procedure. Is it just a normal en route call but instead of initially calling "XX This is G-XXXX requesting Flight Information Service"...you call "XX this is G-XXXX requesting Matz penetration"?
I understand this is flown on the MATZ aerodrome QFE, can this present en route problems I.E messing with your PLOG? Do you have to give ETA's? and can you have normal Flight Information Services?
Do you just call the station, get the clearance and then report back to previous frequency?
Thank you for your help.
Doc
Guest
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Presumably you have a copy of CAP 413, Read para 7.14.- Military Aerodrome Traffic Zones (MATZ) and associated Penetration Services
Alternatively, look in the UK AIP ENROUTE Section.
[This message has been edited by Noggin (edited 25 March 2001).]
Alternatively, look in the UK AIP ENROUTE Section.
[This message has been edited by Noggin (edited 25 March 2001).]
Guest
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Dr_skyhigh,
I learned to fly very close to a MATZ, so it was one of the first things we did. Introduce yourself and give your life history as usual, requesting MATZ Penetration. They will tell you when to switch to their QFE, and probably give you a squawk code, so it helps to be prepared for that. They'll also tell you when to switch back to your en route frequency, or possibly pass you on to someone else. It's usually very simple. Very very occasionally they'll use some military terminology you're not familiar with, in which case just ask them what they mean, in normal English!
Hope that helps.
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Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
I learned to fly very close to a MATZ, so it was one of the first things we did. Introduce yourself and give your life history as usual, requesting MATZ Penetration. They will tell you when to switch to their QFE, and probably give you a squawk code, so it helps to be prepared for that. They'll also tell you when to switch back to your en route frequency, or possibly pass you on to someone else. It's usually very simple. Very very occasionally they'll use some military terminology you're not familiar with, in which case just ask them what they mean, in normal English!
Hope that helps.
------------------
Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
Guest
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Whirlybird
Please do not give your "life history" and waste valuable spectrum space. They want to know:
Who you are
Where you are and
What do you want
Keep it concise using the correct phraseology. There are far too many GA pilots wandering aroung passing loads of irrelevant drivel. Think, what do they do with all this information? in most cases they just wait for you to stop talking!
Please do not give your "life history" and waste valuable spectrum space. They want to know:
Who you are
Where you are and
What do you want
Keep it concise using the correct phraseology. There are far too many GA pilots wandering aroung passing loads of irrelevant drivel. Think, what do they do with all this information? in most cases they just wait for you to stop talking!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Noggin,
Who you are
Where you are
What you want
In other words, your life history, as most of us describe it - since that saves time
What did you think I meant?
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(A slightly confused)Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
[This message has been edited by Whirlybird (edited 25 March 2001).]
Who you are
Where you are
What you want
In other words, your life history, as most of us describe it - since that saves time
What did you think I meant?
------------------
(A slightly confused)Whirly
To fly is human, to hover, divine.
[This message has been edited by Whirlybird (edited 25 March 2001).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hi all
Another little addition that might be relevant is that generally MATZ means Military Airfield which means Gert Big Radar. Take advantage of it and have one of their excellent Radar Information Services.
The more we use them the more difficult it is for the Military to justify closing them. So keep using the services and let's hope we can keep a high quality LARS Service.
PS If you go thru' the Southern Midlands don't forget to give Brize a call, they are always helpful.
Another little addition that might be relevant is that generally MATZ means Military Airfield which means Gert Big Radar. Take advantage of it and have one of their excellent Radar Information Services.
The more we use them the more difficult it is for the Military to justify closing them. So keep using the services and let's hope we can keep a high quality LARS Service.
PS If you go thru' the Southern Midlands don't forget to give Brize a call, they are always helpful.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Call em up and ask for MATZ penetration and FIS. Then, they will ask for details, so, what, from, going to, height and QNH and reconfirm MATZ penetration and FIS required. You will (may) get a squawk and you may be put under a radar service, so you are under their control. Depending on height, you might be asked to change to avoid conflict with incoming/outgoing. I've found both RAF and USAF always very helpful and plane spotting from 2000' is fun!! Beware the USAF bases, they may come straight back with a squawk, then identify you and then ask for details.
That's my experience and rarely refused MATZ penetration, but be prepared to reroute if they think there is conflicting traffic, although they may say 'resume own nav', there's no harm in asking for a QDM to your next waypoint if unsure.
That's my experience and rarely refused MATZ penetration, but be prepared to reroute if they think there is conflicting traffic, although they may say 'resume own nav', there's no harm in asking for a QDM to your next waypoint if unsure.
Guest
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Just do an enroute change of frequency to the Matz when about 10 minutes to run.
There is no actual requirement to talk to them as long as you stay out of their airfield ATZ but you'll be a fool not to especially with all that hardware potentially zipping around.
The service is friendly and first class.
Keep it concise and don't get too worried if they don't respond immediately, they might be working the military UHF frequencies that you can't hear on VHF.
Very often they'll automatically pass you on to the next service. You know that this is going to happen when they ask you to change the transponder code prior to the handover.
All you do then is report to the next unit "on frequency" when instructed.
Otherwise they tell you to "freecall" the next radar unit which means that you have to go through the formal introductions again.
All in all, nothing to worry about.
A very professional service.
B
There is no actual requirement to talk to them as long as you stay out of their airfield ATZ but you'll be a fool not to especially with all that hardware potentially zipping around.
The service is friendly and first class.
Keep it concise and don't get too worried if they don't respond immediately, they might be working the military UHF frequencies that you can't hear on VHF.
Very often they'll automatically pass you on to the next service. You know that this is going to happen when they ask you to change the transponder code prior to the handover.
All you do then is report to the next unit "on frequency" when instructed.
Otherwise they tell you to "freecall" the next radar unit which means that you have to go through the formal introductions again.
All in all, nothing to worry about.
A very professional service.
B
Guest
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Dr S
Don't worry about adjusting to QFE - it isn't going to make much difference to your PLOG as you'll only have to climb or lose about 300ft - easily done. As for what everyone else has said all I will add is don't bother with a pressure on your initial call - they'll give you one to fly, and don't bother with an estimate - Military controllers aren't interested on the whole as they use radar so can see what's happening. Estimates are mainly for the benefit of units operating procedurally.
Flight Information Service is the minimum service an ATC unit can give you, so you'll be under this anyway (you should be told though), as well as being in receipt of a MATZ crossing clearance eventually
.
Massbalance
Whether you use a Military LARS unit or not bears no relation as to whether it will stay in existence. They are usually linked to the units 'zone' function - the airfield closes and the zone goes, you lose the LARS service. Stations closing have more to do with defence cuts than provision of ATC services, and the military are just as short of controllers as the civilian world.
As for saying to ask for a RIS a request if I may. Think about whether you need it before you ask for it. If it's an iffy day then by all means do, but if its gin clear and the guy is busy you will be degrading the service that he should be giving to the aircraft that's in IMC that really needs it, because he's trying to give you something that you don't really need. A little thought is sometimes required.
[This message has been edited by Chilli Monster (edited 26 March 2001).]
Don't worry about adjusting to QFE - it isn't going to make much difference to your PLOG as you'll only have to climb or lose about 300ft - easily done. As for what everyone else has said all I will add is don't bother with a pressure on your initial call - they'll give you one to fly, and don't bother with an estimate - Military controllers aren't interested on the whole as they use radar so can see what's happening. Estimates are mainly for the benefit of units operating procedurally.
Flight Information Service is the minimum service an ATC unit can give you, so you'll be under this anyway (you should be told though), as well as being in receipt of a MATZ crossing clearance eventually
.Massbalance
Whether you use a Military LARS unit or not bears no relation as to whether it will stay in existence. They are usually linked to the units 'zone' function - the airfield closes and the zone goes, you lose the LARS service. Stations closing have more to do with defence cuts than provision of ATC services, and the military are just as short of controllers as the civilian world.
As for saying to ask for a RIS a request if I may. Think about whether you need it before you ask for it. If it's an iffy day then by all means do, but if its gin clear and the guy is busy you will be degrading the service that he should be giving to the aircraft that's in IMC that really needs it, because he's trying to give you something that you don't really need. A little thought is sometimes required
. [This message has been edited by Chilli Monster (edited 26 March 2001).]
Guest
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You want to call up and say:
XX Zone/Approach, G-XXXX
G-XX pass your details
G-XX currently 5nm W of field over Xham at 2000' on Barnsley request MATZ crossing West to East at 2000'
G-XX MATZ crossing approved at 2000' QFE 989 no closer than 2nm
2000' 989 G-XX
XX Zone/Approach, G-XXXX
G-XX pass your details
G-XX currently 5nm W of field over Xham at 2000' on Barnsley request MATZ crossing West to East at 2000'
G-XX MATZ crossing approved at 2000' QFE 989 no closer than 2nm
2000' 989 G-XX
Guest
Posts: n/a
Just be aware that we don't have "band-boxing" (where tx's are recycled onto our other frequencies) and our a/c are invariably on UHF. If we don't reply instantly, wait a few minutes before trying again. Also, listen very carefully to the callsign to which we are talking - we can transmit on several different frequencies at once, and just because you transmitted doesn't mean that the first reply you hear will be directed at you. In general, call us in plenty of time, (ie at least 10 miles away) and you're likely to get what you want. Do be prepared to be asked to change your level (tell us if you can't maintain VMC), and when you are asked what type of service you require, don't say "MATZ transit" - that doesn't exist. It's FIS, RIS or RAS. Not all military fields are LARS units, but nearly all have radar, and speaking for myself in E Anglia, I would far rather provide a service to all a/c anywhere near me than vector a jet miles out of his way just because a 7000's floating around just outside my ATZ.
Although civvy a/c are only legally obliged to stay out of the ATZ, I would strongly recommend that the safest course of action is to call and call early. I've often seen a/c overfly us , over 2000' (outside ATZ so legal) and over 3000 (outside MATZ - even better) without any contact but the pilots of those a/c have no way of knowing about the f/j punching out of low level at 400kts and going vertical unless they talk to me.
Anyway, try this -
XXX approach, Callsign
Callsign, xxx approach, go ahead
Callsign
Type
Departure airfield
Destination
Postition
Height
Pressure setting (in numbers, not "on the London QNH"!)
Type of service required
+ req MATZ transit (if required).
Please don't feel you should only call us for MATZ transit - we'll quite happily work you until you fall off our screen (generally 40 miles radius) or a sensible time to hand you over to the next unit. A/c on a radar service will recieve a radar handover, those on a FIS will be instructed to squawk 7000 and freecall (the apprpriate unit and frequency).
Also -
If you're unsure of your position - tell us. We can nearly always find you.
If you need a steer - we can do that too.
Make a visit to your nearest unit and see for yourself the people and the toys we've got.
We don't bite, but we do like chocolate biscuits and doughnuts!
Safe flying!
(from ATCO, PPL, IMC, Multi)
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Once more unto the breach, Dear Friends...
Although civvy a/c are only legally obliged to stay out of the ATZ, I would strongly recommend that the safest course of action is to call and call early. I've often seen a/c overfly us , over 2000' (outside ATZ so legal) and over 3000 (outside MATZ - even better) without any contact but the pilots of those a/c have no way of knowing about the f/j punching out of low level at 400kts and going vertical unless they talk to me.
Anyway, try this -
XXX approach, Callsign
Callsign, xxx approach, go ahead
Callsign
Type
Departure airfield
Destination
Postition
Height
Pressure setting (in numbers, not "on the London QNH"!)
Type of service required
+ req MATZ transit (if required).
Please don't feel you should only call us for MATZ transit - we'll quite happily work you until you fall off our screen (generally 40 miles radius) or a sensible time to hand you over to the next unit. A/c on a radar service will recieve a radar handover, those on a FIS will be instructed to squawk 7000 and freecall (the apprpriate unit and frequency).
Also -
If you're unsure of your position - tell us. We can nearly always find you.
If you need a steer - we can do that too.
Make a visit to your nearest unit and see for yourself the people and the toys we've got.
We don't bite, but we do like chocolate biscuits and doughnuts!
Safe flying!
(from ATCO, PPL, IMC, Multi)
------------------
Once more unto the breach, Dear Friends...
Guest
Posts: n/a
I think there is a lot to be gained by having more interaction between private pilots and military aircrew/air traffickers.
If you rang the CRO (Community Relation Officer) and suggested that a group of you came to visit I am sure he would be pleased to arrange it.
If you rang the CRO (Community Relation Officer) and suggested that a group of you came to visit I am sure he would be pleased to arrange it.
Guest
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Aluminium Persuader
Have a word with your GRSF guys. We've got the VHF/UHF re-broadcast facility on our comms by selecting the 'con' button as well as 'Tx' on the UHF and VHF frequencies you want to couple. It's a DERA airfield but the kit's identical to yours.
CM
Have a word with your GRSF guys. We've got the VHF/UHF re-broadcast facility on our comms by selecting the 'con' button as well as 'Tx' on the UHF and VHF frequencies you want to couple. It's a DERA airfield but the kit's identical to yours.
CM
