Confused and frustrated

[MightyDucks]

Hi all,

I'm looking for anyone who has been in the same situation as i am, and can give some advice.

I recently started my PPL training, something i've worked hard and saved and dreamed about for a long time. However it hasn't been the fun i thought it would be. Things haven't gone well for me. I've about 8 hours done and i feel i haven't learnt much. i've only done one take off and one radio call which didn't go every well and either has the rest of my training. i went down today thinking i was going to be doing stalls only to find out i'd be going over climbing and descending again which didn't go well the first time. i admit i was disappointed but i was completely gutted when i was told i'd have to go over it again the next day.gutted.

This along with the rest of my training hasn't gone well and i'm starting to wondering would i be better of spending my money somewhere else. I've wanted to be a pilot for a long time now and the way things have been going are killing me. i don't blame the school in any way because i'd rather be a good pilot than one with minimal hours. Also within the last 8 hours i've had 3 different instructors which hasn't helped either.

If anyone give me some advice i'd be gratefull,

Cheers

(Just read this back. god i sound like moaner)

[172driver]

Change flight school.

[douglas.lindsay]

I would suggest coming over to my school in Prestwick - they're great - but, well, it's a long way to Tipperary...

(sorry, couldn't resist!)

[cjm_2010]

how much preparation are you doing before each lesson? books, flight sims?

[douglas.lindsay]

cjm's question is a good one - I found my flight sim really useful in making progress, particularly with circuits, PFL and the like. You can use FlightGear for free, or pay a little for something else that has nice stuff like real terrain pictures. Get yourself a proper yoke and pedals, though - eBay occasionally has some. A joystick is a bit of a waste of time.

During my power training I stuck to the same instructor for almost all of it. On the occasions when I took somebody else (when my usual guy wasn't there) there was definitely a long-term benefit - emphasis on different aspects of some things - but I was also aware that I didn't make anywhere near as much progress.

Have you had 3 instructors because you're not available, or because they're not available? Might be worth talking to one of them and trying to synchronize a bit.

Edit: And don't be afraid to be picky - you are, after all, paying quite considerably (or somebody else very generous is)!

[MightyDucks]

The reason for the different instructors is because its just the way the school works. all students have a different instructor.

As for the prep work. i read up on each lesson before i do it. i do have flight sim but i don't find it too helpful yet.

Would this be very out of the normal procedures to do that lesson 3 times?

I can asure you its all my money

[The Old Fat One]

Unless you have willingly agreed to the changes, 3 different instructors in your first 8 lessons is not good enough.

One radio call in 8 lessons sounds odd, but maybe that is part of the school's method - I don't know.

Saying you don't blame the school in any way is little naive. Maybe, as hinted, you are not reviewing your flights sufficiently or carrying out the necessary ground prep and study. Maybe you are not cut out for flying (it's not for everybody). Or maybe the instruction is not all it could be. If you really want it (and if you are not committed walk away now) start off by putting more effort into your ground study, whilst telling the flight school you only want to fly with the same instructor for the next 10 or so flights.

Tip, find out which of the three instructors are unrestricted and stick with them. They are likely to be the most experienced and they will be able to solo you without having to hand you on to somebody else at a crucial stage.

If the flight school don't respect your input, find another school.

[L'aviateur]

Sometimes it's a case of finding a flying instructor that you like and puts you at ease. Someone who will make the learning enjoyable, so that your not just spending money, but your having a good time. Even better if you can get involved in a club where you can do some backseat trips and just start to have fun in flying.
It's good to have goals, but it's also good to enjoy being up in the air.

You should also keep preparing on the ground, be as ready as possible. Read through the checklists whilst thinking through the procedures, practice the memory checks to make them flow more easily in the air. Read through the last exercise you did a few times to make it stick, and read up on the next exercise so you are remembering the procedures. Read up and practice your circuit procedures, heights, power settings and turns in your head. This means you can concentrate more on flying in the air.
For the radio, reading CAP 413 (I think?), and listening to ATC on radio or something can help. I listened to Amsterdam on the internet when I was doing my PPL trying to build a mental image of what was going on just by listening, and it improved my RT very quickly. Just practising the phrases, and knowing them so you don't have to think too much about them.

Also, be ready for the lesson. Arrive early so that you can be relaxed, go through the Notams, METARS and TAFs whilst chatting to people in the club so that you can bring yourself into the right mindset before the flight.

These things all worked for me.

[RTN11]

Changing instructors so much in your first 8 hours will definately hinder your progress. I would recommend either trying to stick with an instructor you think you will learn well from, or a change of schools.

8 hours should be ample time to cover the first 9 exercises correctly, but different instructors have very different methods. How long did you spend on 4-6? should be at least 2-3 hours, but is often rushed and crammed into 1-1.5. These early exercises are the very foundation of your flying ability, and instinct such as the need to use right rudder when entering a climb. If these are not emphasised early on, students often struggle with 7-9.

The best advice would be to talk to the CFI and voice your concerns. If noone is availble to help you, change schools asap.

Good luck with the rest of the course, I hope you haven't been put off too much.

[n5296s]

Sounds like the school is the problem. I wasn't a particularly quick student but at 8 hours I was doing everything myself - t/o, landing, radio (lots of here in the Bay Area), and stalls and airwork.

n5296s

[p1andy]

You definately need to get yourself one instructor. Choping and changing between a few instructors is no use. Get that sorted out then just ask him/her to be truthful to you about your flying progress.

[Paul H]

There is definately an issues with having more than one instructor. I had mine picked from day one, then stuck with him all the way to my skills test. Then the problems started.....in a nutshell

1) The lovely British weather helped to cancel my skills test 7 times in 8 weeks
2) After 8 weeks, I needed to start flying again before I could take my test.
3) My instructor went to Oz for 4 weeks.
4) I flew with 3 other instructors, all of which had different opinions of what and how things should be done, including some things I'd never heard of.
5) My instructor came back and told me everything the other instructors had taught me was wrong, which was annoying since I had been getting used to their new methods.

10 months on (yes TEN), 15 cancelled tests, I'm ready again to take my skills test, after having everything rewired in my brain. It's cost me about an extra £1,000, and delayed me nearly a year

Not everything in one chapter can be covered in one lesson, even the basics need repeating until they feel mastered and second nature. I didn't really make any radio calls apart from radio checks and downwind/final calls until about 10/15 hrs. Remember to learn at your own pace, and don't worry about trying to complete in the magical 45 hrs, I'm at 65hrs now (not intentionally), but a much better prepared pilot because of it. Hours = experience = knowledge = safety.

[douglas.lindsay]

That's pretty tough going, Paul! I had problems earlier this year when I was trying to do my qualifying XC, but nothing compared to that. Hope your next test booking is different!

[Pilot DAR]

I agree with those who suggest that you should be able to complete your initial training (first 20 hours or so) with only one instructor, changing only if it your choice. If you think instructors are trying to not fly with you, better ask yourself (or them) why?

However, consider that though the instructor may be there to "instruct", and some of that will be necessary for you to learn, the instructor is also there more simply as a qualified person who will assure your safety, while you learn yourself. In my opinion (I'm not an instructor), after 8 hours of training, the instructor should be able to sit back and watch you fly, with only minor pointers and observations. Intervention should not be required, other than for intense maneuvering, and close to the ground. If this is not so, they are not relaxed with you flying. You need to sell them on your skills - whatever they are!

Are you mentally prepared to learn to the greatest extent while you are flying? Getting in the plane, and telling the person beside you "teach me to fly", is really the hard way for you to learn. After a few lessons, your interest should be so peaked that you enter the cockpit with a hundred questions each time, something new you want to experiment with, and new elements you would like to explore for those things you have already learned.

My opinion is that generally, if the instructor sees that you have a gentle touch, and respond promptly and well to verbal instruction, it should be possible to talk you through most of the flying, without his/her touching the controls much at all. To satisfy myself of this years ago, I mentored my 15 year old cousin for only her second ever flight in a light aircraft. After 1.6 hours of getting her relaxed and confident with the controls, I had talked her through 2 very adequate takeoffs and landings on a long frozen lake (so runway dimension was not a factor). I did the power, but she did everything else on her own. She had not expected the flight that day, but was certainly very enthusiastic, and primed to learn.

Prime yourself to learn in every way you can. Probably sitting in the aircraft for a half an hour or so before each lesson will help. Think of it this way, you're paying to be there, every moment that your are not actually flying the aircraft, you're missing the best value of the flight. If the instructor takes the controls, do whatever you can to make him/her confident that they do not need to be in control of the aircraft, you will do it at least adequately.

Let us know how you make out...

[AdamFrisch]

Change instructor or school, I'd say.

Many instructors are simply not very good at teaching - it's not an easy job and it requires a certain enthusiasm or personality to imbue knowledge in an effortless way and in a way that has the student really absorbing it. Just think back to your school years - there was always that one teacher that everyone liked and learned a lot from. But they're rare - there was never more than one, if even that.

It can be extremely depressing when you sense you're not making any progress. I've recently had the same experience doing my FAA standalone license and I changed instructor.

[ChasG]

Pick the instructor that suits you best and stick with him/her or change school. While I am sure everybody goes through a difficult patch, every lesson shouldnt be a trial. I was going to give up but following a post on here I am now enjoying it and I look at it that I am paying for the experience and am not overly concerned if I dont get it right each time - my instructor will teach me at the pace he thinks I can cope with. Learning Air law on the other hand is like trying to eat cardboard Good luck and dont get disheartened.

[ChasG]

ps have a chat with some of the other people at your school and listen to tales of getting lost on the cross country test and how difficult they found it at times - cheered me up and made me realise it wasnt just me.

[stickandrudderman]

Some good advice here.
Try to find experienced pilots at your school (hirers or owners) and see if they'll have you along on their burger runs. You'll be amazed by how quickly you become familiar with everything once you've sat in the right seat as a passenger a few times; you can observe what P1 is doing/saying and pretty soon it will all become very easy for you so that when you're asked to do it yourself you'll accomplish much more and quickly.
Good luck.

[Whopity]

i went down today thinking i was going to be doing stalls only to find out i'd be going over climbing and descending again which didn't go well the first time.

There by you own admission it didn't go well the first time. Climbing and descending are probably the simplest exercises on the course and you expect to move on when they clearly were not up to standard. It sounds as though the instructor was entirely right; there is no point moving on to a new skill if the previous skill has not been mastered.

The European way of teaching is one of building blocks. The later blocks depend on the earlier blocks being in place. In each lesson you learn new skills and practice skills learned earlier.

I am intrigued how everyone jumps in to blame the school and instructor(s), which I am pleased to see you don't. Learning to fly is quite demanding when done correctly and it will take a few lessons before it all starts to come together. Its better that you repeat lessons rather than move on to the point where you spend ages in the circuit because you still can't fly the aeroplane. Different people progress at different rates. Imagine yourself going through these exercises trussed up like a turkey with harnesses, parachutes, bone domes and oxygen masks, like thre military student then think how comfortable you are in your shirt sleeves and a lightweight headset.

Prepare for each lesson i.e. read the book about the next exercise and understand what you did on the previous exercise. If you don't understand anything, ask to do it again and expect to repeat exercises until you have mastered them.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

If you think instructors are trying to not fly with you, better ask yourself (or them) why?

One possible reason could be that the first instructor goes to the CFI and says "look, I'm just not getting through to this guy, perhaps you could try him with Bert, I think his style might work better in this case?". But that doesn't explain the third one or the lack of explaining the issue and process to the student.