GA Pilot busts Red Arrows at Eastbourne
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: LONDON
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GA Pilot busts Red Arrows at Eastbourne
Coming back from Germany yesterday and while crossing the Channel at Lydd (about 16.30hrs), it was sad to hear Red Leader getting quite upset over the RT while talking to Farnborough South . . . . he was demanding the registration of a light aircraft that had popped up into their flight path while on the run-in to display at Eastbourne. He was not a happy bunny so it must have been quite a hairy situation. I don't know if the display was aborted or not.
After 15 minutes trying to trace the offending aircraft Farnborough eventually came back to the Reds to advise the culprit seemed to have landed in the nearest available field (presumably to do a runner!). I don't know if they were able to obtain the callsign or to run the radar trace back to the place of departure.
Anyway . . .. . he's probably still hiding in the woods somewhere
After 15 minutes trying to trace the offending aircraft Farnborough eventually came back to the Reds to advise the culprit seemed to have landed in the nearest available field (presumably to do a runner!). I don't know if they were able to obtain the callsign or to run the radar trace back to the place of departure.
Anyway . . .. . he's probably still hiding in the woods somewhere
Moderator
Sorry to sound unsympathetic, but aren't the Red Arrows a part of the RAF? Isn't the RAF the air force, who are supposed to be able to intercept intruding aircraft?
It seems odd to me that the interception job would be left to the Farnborough air traffic controller, to phone the local constable, to drive to the airport, to look for a plane off the side of the runway with the door open...
It seems odd to me that the interception job would be left to the Farnborough air traffic controller, to phone the local constable, to drive to the airport, to look for a plane off the side of the runway with the door open...
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
he was demanding the registration of a light aircraft that had popped up into their flight path
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Long White Cloud
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is the CAA that prosecute if an infringement of a restricted area has occurred, there was a Dutch pilot who got fined £4000 for interrupting one of the Red's Displays in the last couple of years.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I expect he would be planning to file an airprox report. The more details that can be provided, the more likely a successful investigation. Any action taken would be subject to the outcome of the independent investigation. It would certainly not be a case of the RAF prosecuting.
The Airprox Process | UK Airprox Board
PilotDAR, perhaps they should fit the cannons to the Hawks for displays and just shoot down any infringers. Might need E-3 Sentry cover for displays as well.
The Airprox Process | UK Airprox Board
PilotDAR, perhaps they should fit the cannons to the Hawks for displays and just shoot down any infringers. Might need E-3 Sentry cover for displays as well.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would be interesting to know how many people do actually face prosecution for airspace busts etc. I dont know if people just cant be bothered to read things like notams or whether they just carry on flying regardless. Only yesterday did I witness another n*b jockey.....not talking to anyone, completely oblivious to his surroundings, fly straight through the ILS at an international airport with commercial arrivals and departures.
Moderator
they should fit the cannons to the Hawks for displays and just shoot down any infringers. Might need E-3 Sentry cover for displays as well
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 75N 16E
Age: 54
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Only yesterday did I witness another n*b jockey.....not talking to anyone, completely oblivious to his surroundings, fly straight through the ILS at an international airport with commercial arrivals and departures.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, yes and 'barely' yes. Low cloudbase, scattered below 500 feet, poor viz due rain. Aircraft was somewhere between 500 and 1000 feet, trying to scrape its way through the murk. Wasnt talking to either approach radar or tower.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was this in controlled airpspace?
No
A PPL holder who has learnt exactly the PPL syllabus will not even know what an "ILS" is. He will not have heard of any of these, either:
"AIP"
"Jeppesen"
"Aerad"
There is no easy solution to this.
Well, you could have controlled airspace, but then you need ATC to run it, which will cost around £600,000/year in ATC salaries (and overheads) just for daytime cover. To paraphrase Dirty Harry, "do you think you really want this"?
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed...however no excuses for not knowing what the markings on a half/quarter mil chart are. Given the weather conditions and wind direction, it wouldnt have taken rocket science to work out which runway was in use and the likelihood of instrument approaches being in progress. To go bumbling through the final approach track at such close range was just down right bloody dangerous.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 75N 16E
Age: 54
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was there anything actually on approach? Secondly as the airfield has approach control, they would have been in contact with the IFR traffic. If so the IFR traffic would have been seperated from the VFR and no danger existed.
But you are right to the extent that I'd have been talking to approach assuming there was no one else to talk to (E.g. Plymouth I'd opt for plymouth Mil rather than Plymouth approach as they have radar). MInd you even the chart makers can't get the chevrons right at Newquay!!
But you are right to the extent that I'd have been talking to approach assuming there was no one else to talk to (E.g. Plymouth I'd opt for plymouth Mil rather than Plymouth approach as they have radar). MInd you even the chart makers can't get the chevrons right at Newquay!!
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have I missed something?
We are talking about Eastbourne?
There is not even a runway, the nearest is a good ten miles away (Deanland), and beyond that Lydd and Shoreham at 20 miles +.
What there is, is some temporary restricted airspace. There might even be an air to ground with the show organiser but nothing is mentioned on the NOTAM.
All that said, the area is clearly NOTAM'ed, and would be known to Farnborough East or London info.
No excuses for infringing, VFR, IFR or whatever. No excuses what so ever.
Oh, and there is no Farnborough South either!
Other than that the thread is either a complete wind up or .. .. ..
We are talking about Eastbourne?
There is not even a runway, the nearest is a good ten miles away (Deanland), and beyond that Lydd and Shoreham at 20 miles +.
What there is, is some temporary restricted airspace. There might even be an air to ground with the show organiser but nothing is mentioned on the NOTAM.
All that said, the area is clearly NOTAM'ed, and would be known to Farnborough East or London info.
No excuses for infringing, VFR, IFR or whatever. No excuses what so ever.
Oh, and there is no Farnborough South either!
Other than that the thread is either a complete wind up or .. .. ..
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 14th Aug 2010 at 17:33.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
THe key phrase hear seems to be "on the run in to the display".
Was this pilot inside the TRA ? If not then the standard rules of the air apply.
I think we should wait for the Airprox report.................. hell no! hanging the guy on these forums without ALL the evidence is far more fun.
Was this pilot inside the TRA ? If not then the standard rules of the air apply.
I think we should wait for the Airprox report.................. hell no! hanging the guy on these forums without ALL the evidence is far more fun.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: the north
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fun though the Reds are I do wonder whether as we approach an age of austerity such a large and dedicated team is really affordable.
I would love to see a squadron based team of say 4 Typhoons.
I would love to see a squadron based team of say 4 Typhoons.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think 4 Typhoons would offer a saving over 9 Hawks - quite the opposite! I think the Reds have probably paid for themselves many times over as a result of defence exports and international trade that they promote.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sometimes north, sometimes south
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
1 Post
I think the Reds have probably paid for themselves many times over as a result of defence exports and international trade that they promote.
That's of course if you buy the line that the people responsible for bankers wrecking the economy are the public sector....
NS
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: LONDON
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fuji: "Have I missed something? We are talking about Eastbourne?"
I do agree that my reference to Farnborough South was incorrect - I should have said 'Farnborough East' (123.225)
(However NATS describe it as the sector covering most of Kent, Surrey and Sussex, including the airspace around Gatwick, London City and Biggin Hill, hence my inadvertent reference to 'south'.)
The original post was certainly no 'wind up' !