What would u like in the cockpit ?

[Monocock]

I feel that many of the modern designs in light a/c do incorporate many of the things I am reading about in this thread ie. inertia reel belts, cd players, air con. etc. etc.

How many of you out there use a Palm computer? (or PDA as some call them)

Those who do will know how wonderful they are, those that don't soon will. The amount of software available on these computers is frightening (just go to <a href="http://www.palm.com" target="_blank">www.palm.com</a> and look at the aviation section to find out).

What I am getting to is that there must be a way of integrating these very easy to use devices into all kinds of a/c.

Picture the scene.......sitting at home on a Friday night you decide to visit mate X in town X the following day. You consult the following; weather (by phone or internet), Pooleys, chart, GPS, a/c performance book etc etc. Then when you finally get in the plane the following day you are multi-tasking from start to finish. Radio freq., nav aid freq., GPS set and ready to go, another weather check, en route navigation etc etc.

What I would like is this.................................

Turn on the Palm, point on the map where I want to go, from where, from what runway, at what time, file the flight plan and then go to bed.

The computer plugs into the a/c the next morning and becomes your en route weather mate, radio frequency mate, nav aid frequency mate, a/c runway performance mate (cos it knows which runway you are on with its inbuilt GPS) navigation mate, CD player disc and volume control mate, air con. temperature mate, and general all round mate.

Is that too much to ask for?

And while it's doing all that for you there is more time to fiddle with Britney!

[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: Monocock ]</p>

[buster172]

Can I just say a big thank you, FNG, Tacpot, Zlin526, Whirlybird, I have control, TinstaafI, Fox 4, The NR fairy, Flight Detent, Pulse1, Genghis the engineer, Who has control, Dublin pilot, Tricky woo, FFF, Pete Morris, Doc.400 and Monocock. Some great ideas !. .. .I think that all the ideas suggested would have a beneficial aspect, some more than others <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> to the 'cockpit enviroment' however I cant actually change anything in the existing cockpit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> . .. .Many of the ideas, like improving seating, restraints, audio systems, and security would undoubtably improve the aircraft.. .. .My apologies if I didnt explain this properly earlier. I need to bring something new into the cokpit to help organise and manage your work flow or improve your flying experience in some way.. .. .From what u tell me, perhaps a system, maybe an improved flying suit that adapts to the user, a way of presenting all the relevent informaiton at one time ? but not a little black box with batteries !. .. .A way to improve comfort ? field of vision with out altering the exisitng design ? Whirlybird does need to be able to see where shes going ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Perhaps a new think on the kneeboard, a way to organise charts etc etc and be incorparted into an additonal suit that has some of your thoughts incorparated.. .. .I do not wear a flying suit in the 172 I fly. However I would be interested to know what you think about flying with/without a suit and do you think there are benefits/negative aspects of wearing one out with vintage/warbirds/jets etc . .. .Ideally the 'product' will not contain technology, be affordable, and accesable to the majority of flyers. So I can have one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Thank you all very much for making the effort to reply to my post and answer my questions !!. .. .I hope that you will help me again to think about this just a little bit more.. .. .For me, to get this qaulity of research and insight is priceless and I cant thank you enough.. .. .I hope to hear some more thoughts on what are your ideas,. .. .Thanks again,. .. .Buster

[FNG]

With regard to flying suits etc, on one view we should all wear nomex suits, helmets and gloves whenever we fly, but we don't and never will. People (me included) still ski over steep and rocky terrain at 30-40 mph without wearing helmets (although helmets have recently started to appear on recreational skiers and boarders), and until fairly recently it was normal to ride a horse across country without a hard hat on. . .. .It would be difficult not to feel a plonker climbing out of the average GA aircraft wearing a flying suit. The older the aircraft, the more smelly and oily it tends to be, and the more difficult to get into and out of, so in classics and warbirds a flight suit makes sense as well as looking the part and, most importantly, providing some defence against fire and (if you remember to zip up the 97 pockets) lose foreign objects. . .. .It perhaps wouldn't be a bad idea for flying clubs to display information about the fire retardant properties (read: lack of) of the clothes than many people customarily wear to go flying in.. .. .Good luck with your project.

[John Farley]

Buster172. .. .The problem you have selected is a very real one, and in my view well worth tackling as a formal project. .. .Some thoughts:. .. .In defining the existing problem do not assume aviation knowledge on the part of the reader. You would need to expand considerably on some of the following points. .. .Pilots need to take various bits of pre-prepared paper and implements (from glasses and sun glasses to stop watches and writing tools) into the cockpit.. .. .Because of the risks posed by lose articles they need everything to be easy to stow and easy to unstow (as well as being appropriate for purpose when in use). .. .Stowage provisions vary greatly between types. .. .Pilot needs vary with experience and type of flight. .. .Often a clear definition and appreciation of the problem can lead one to suggest solutions.. .. .How about discussing personal stowage? The flying suit may be seen by many as a posing accessory, but in fact can be of great assistance if tailored to specific stowage needs rather than (just) looking sharp.. .. .If a flying suit is not worn, then you could consider pockets/pouches applied to upper arms and thighs as Velcro wrap arounds etc. (discarded before you emerge to have your photo taken after another amazing feat of aviation...). .. .Good luck with your exercise

[FlyingForFun]

I never really thought there was much point in wearing a flying suit, unless you're in an open-cockpit plane. Once you're talking about open-cockpit, any bits of paper, etc, you take with you are liable to blow away! Which is why open-cockpit guys where flying suits - so that they can write details of their route, flight logs, etc, onto the panels on their thighs - the same way that most of us use a kneeboard. And of course the 1/2-million pockets are useful too.... .. .(The same applies to aerobatic flights - no place for lose bits of paper there either. But generally there's no need for lose bits of paper, because aerobatic flights are usually local and don't need a written plan or log. I've done aerobatics - both open-cockpit and with a canopy, without a flight suit.). .. .Fire-retardent qualities and so on are nice, but I don't think that's the reason people where flight suits. (Of course, having never worn one myself, I can't say for sure!). .. .If you like the idea of developing a flight suit further, probably the best thing to do is to speak to people who already use them to find out what improvements they'd like - I'm not sure that there's much of a market to get more people to start using them.. .. .Good luck, and have fun (but it sounds like you already are!). .. .FFF. .---------

[buster172]

FNG, John Farley and FFF thank you for your input.. .. .After looking at all the issues that have been raised and discussing the issues with my course leader. I am going to develop a 'product' to ensure all the required articles are within easy reach and accesable within a range of cockpit enviroments. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Something along those lines. It may be a development of the kneeboard, an integral part of a flying suit or something completely new.. .. .I would just like to say thank you once again to all those who posted, my course leader was very immpressed with my resaerch methods, and of course thats thanks to you !. .. .If anyone was interested I could post details of my final design when I complete it ? It would be great for me to hear your veiws on the final concept.. .. .Thanks again,. .. .Buster. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

[FlyingForFun]

I'd definitely be interested in hearing about your developments, Buster!. .. .Why did my studying never include anything this interesting?. .. .FFF. .-------

[Who has control?]

Buster, . . If you can design a decent kneeboard, you'd get my vote.. .. . My kneeboard is like a book, (I'm sure you have seen them in Transair etc), it straps to my right thigh, with the clip at the top and opens up onto my left thigh. At least, thats the theory.. .. . I'm left handed, so my left hand holds the yoke, presses the PTT and writes. My right hand operates the throttle and trim. It is difficult to write with my left hand on my right thigh.. .. . I have my kneeboard upside down on my left thigh. The clip, which is now at the bottom, holds my checklist by gripping the last page. This means I can use the checklist in flight as it is flip-over format. I don't bother with opening the kneeboard in flight. But all the text printed on the knee-board is up side down and the handy holes for the stopwatch are at the bottom too.. .. . So Buster, if you could design a kneeboard to suit either leg, with clips top or bottom, plus pen and watch-holders, it might be greeted with approval!

[FlyingForFun]

Good point, Who Has Control!. .. .As another lefty, I personally don't have a problem with clipping my knee-board to my right knee. But I like to tilt the paper about 60 degrees to the right when I write on it (to stop my left hand from running over the fresh ink and smudging it: a trick which my school-teacher taught me when I was 10 years old - she was also a lefty, and was into calligraphy). I can't do that with any kneeboard I've found, but I write at an angle anyway, which means my writing slopes down the page. I keep meaning to re-design my flight log form to have sloping lines on it to compensate, but a swiveling kneeboard would be even better!. .. .FFF. .---------

[Who has control?]

Theres your project Buster - a DIY kneeboard kit.. .. .Provide a kneeboard with holes at each corner for a stopwatch, slots in the centre for the straps, two holes top & bottom for a clip and a hole along each edge for penholders. Supply the clip, penholders, strap and fixings and let the customer assemble it to suit themselves.

[Dusty_B]

I have a right-handed book-type knee board, which for me is just as useless as it is for a lefty.... .Why? Because my kites of choice have sticks and not yokes. Therefore, I can't open the folder without fouling the controls.. .(I hate yokes - why were they invented? Horrid american things). .. .As for flying suits, that is what I miss most in my GA flying! Definately the most useful thing I had in my UAS days.. .. .For those that don't know what we do with all the pockets... . .Well, there are many. 2 zipped chest pockets, 2 normal 'trouser' pockets, to knee boards, each with 2 pockets (one accessable from the top - or not, if you are sitting down - the other from the base), and 2 ankle pockets. Oh, and the pen pouch on your sleave, and the vital 'sunglasses' ring... (actually for connecting O2 masks etc to).. .. .Bottom up then, (my personnal preference):. .Left Ankle Pocket: Gloves, En-Route Supplement, first aid kit. . .Right Ankle Pocket: Aircrew Pocket Book (holds lose leaf 'pooleys'/jepsen type charts), Minor Aerodromes.. .Left knee board: Local area map (1:1mil).. .Left knee lower pocket: Sick Bag. .Left knee upper pocket: Lucky Sick Bag (I never needed it, must be lucky). .Right knee board: 'Note Pad'. Ready marked with aeras for wind/info code/runway/QFE/Regional/TL.. .Right knee lower pocket: Map. Larger copy of 1:1mil local area map.. .Right knee upper: Empty.. .'Trouser' Pockets: Empty. OK, probably full of washed tissues.... .Left Chest pocket: Teaspoon. Vital accessory for any crewroom... Ten-pound note... vital for any landaway cafe. Perminant markers (black, red, blue).. .Right Chest pocket: Spare badges (name badges vary with occation and location). Note paper, biro, half pencil.. .. .So, everything placed exactly where you need it for each stage of you flight, from pre-flight planning, to debrief coffee.... .. .Phew. Oh yeah, it weighed a tonne. But it didn't 'alf keep your legs strong with all the weight arround the ankles!!!

[Throtlemonkey]

Good Trick for maps is iron the mongrel things flat then refold them consetina style from top to botom. . .. .Adjustable ruder pedals would be nice as I'm 6'3 (oposite problems to Wirly) shins hit the dash in all cessna single's, I would no doubt lose both knee caps if I ever had a bad prang in one. would also like a cup holder and an arm rest on both sides (you can build controls into the arm rest as they do on the latest model john deere tractors). Better noise reduction would also be a bonus even the new Cessna and Piper are noisy on long flights.