Logging hours in a TMG

[Okavango]

I will soon be doing some gliding training in a TMG with a BGA instructor. I have a current PPL - how would I log these hours? As it will be a BGA instructor I'm not sure I can even log them as P2 under my PPL?

[BEagle]

Get yourself a TMG Class Rating - then you can use hours flown in either a SEP Class aeroplane or a TMG towards the revalidation of both Class Ratings:

If the licence contains both SEP (Land) and TMG
ratings, the revalidation by proficiency check
requirements above may be completed in either
class or in the case of revalidation by experience in
either class or a mixture of the classes, and achieve
revalidation of both ratings.

(from LASORS 2008 F1.4 - complete with lousy original grammar!)

[Whopity]

I'm not sure I can even log them as P2 under my PPL?

There is no such thing as P2 in a single pilot aeroplane.
To log TMG Dual, the instructor would have to have a JAA FI rating. All TMGs are SLMGs therefore with a BGA Instructor you would log it as Dual SLMG.

[tinpilot]

If your BGA instructor is a JAA FI with a TMG rating, you can log the flight as Pu/t and the flight would count towards your PPL licence revalidation requirements.

If your BGA instructor is an NPPL SLMG instructor (but not a JAA FI) you can still log the flight as Pu/t and it counts towards an NPPL SLMG licence.

The likelihood is that your instructor will hold a BGA MGIR in which case you log the time as P2 in your gliding logbook. You shouldn't be touching the throttle anyway so it's a gliding lesson.

Have fun. I guess you're doing a PPL to glider course, where are you going?

[J.A.F.O.]

tinpilot see whopity's post

[tinpilot]

tinpilot see whopity's post

Not sure what you mean but if it's the P2 bit, there's no such thing as a multi-crew sailplane. In BGA-land, P2 = Pu/t.

[Okavango]

Yes - sorry, when I said P2 I meant P/ut, I got mixed up with gliding terminology). If I'm correct, TMG is under PPL and SLMG is under NPPL (even though they're the same craft!!). I don't have a NPPL so can't log Dual SLMG (what bureaucratic nonsense!!) I guess to log the hours I need to get the TMG class rating on my PPL and otherwise I will have no record (other than specifically for gliding). I think they do the TMG class rating at Husbands Bosworth? If I had that, that would then be odd in that as a gliding lesson it would be P2, though I'd only be able to log any powered time as P1 under my PPL (as the instructor isn't a JAA FI)?

[Whopity]

you can log the flight as Pu/t and the flight would count towards your PPL licence revalidation requirements.

To do this you would need a TMG Class Rating in the licence. Hours in a different class will not revalidate a SEP unless you have both TMG and SEP ratings that are current.

[BackPacker]

FWIW I have one of those Jeppesen Professional logbooks. They make a distinction between the aircraft type/class columns and the capacity in which the logbook holder is acting columns.

So an instruction flight in a SEP gets logged in the "SE" and "Dual" column, a normal flight in a SEP gets logged in the "SE" and "PIC" column, an instruction flight in a glider or TMG gets logged in the "glider" or "TMG" column (which I added myself) and the "dual" column. And so forth. Simple.

At the end of each page I make sure that the aircraft type/class colums added together, equals the capacity colums added together, equals total time of flight.

The advantage of this is that everything is logged in one logbook. Disadvantage is that difficult questions such as "number of landings in a SEP aircraft in the last 90 days", "hours as PIC of SEP aircraft in the last 12 months", "total number of solo and dual landings in a glider" are not easy to glean from the totals.

But I'm not interested in the exact license my instructor has. If he's legally allowed to instruct me, whatever I'm doing in whatever aircraft it is, my hours go in the 'dual' column. And if I'm the PIC, the hours go in the 'PIC' column.

[Okavango]

Does anyone have any idea on this issue in particular:

If I had the PPL TMG rating, during a gliding lesson on a motor glider, that would then be odd in that as a gliding lesson it would be logged as P2, though I'd only be able to log any powered time as P1 under my PPL (as the instructor isn't a JAA FI)? Any views appreciated.

[tinpilot]

In this event only the pilot in command can log time as P1.

One of the requirements to hold a BGA motor glider instructor's rating is to have a valid JAA PPL with a TMG rating or an NPPL SLMG licence. Which means that you & the instructor would both hold similar power licences, but only one of you can be PIC.

As it's a lesson given by a club instructor in a club aircraft, it's not unreasonable for the instructor to assume PIC responsibilities & privileges.

[shortstripper]

If I'm correct, TMG is under PPL and SLMG is under NPPL (even though they're the same craft!!). I don't have a NPPL so can't log Dual SLMG (what bureaucratic nonsense!!) I guess to log the hours I need to get the TMG class rating on my PPL and otherwise I will have no record (other than specifically for gliding).

Not quite. The old CAA and (I think) early JAR PPL's had an SLMG rating attached, if not you can add it I think (though you'd be better to just go straight to a TMG rating). You can fly SLMG (and log the hours) on these licences, but if you want to use the hours to maintain currency then you need to upgrade the SLMG rating to TMG. Like you say, the aircraft are the same, just the name of the rating differs.

SS