Nnnnn Register - well?
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From: UK
Nnnnn Register - well?
For those aspiring to an IR, and fed up with waiting for the JAA to come up with any sensible solution for the private pilot, I would be interested on people’s experiences of operating an aircraft on the N reg.
Specifically:
1 I seem to remember reading that if your aircraft type was not already on the N reg.it was unlikely it would be accepted on the US register. Is this so?
2 What are people’s actual experiences of the cost of transferring to the American register and of maintaining the associated trust company?
3 I also seem to remember that group aircraft cannot be operated on the N reg. Is that correct?
4 From a pilot’s point of view, I think the CAA PPL doesn’t in fact give you the privileges of full FAA PPL. (Restricted to use with a valid CAA PPL). Presumably therefore to obtain an FAA IR it is necessary to "convert" your CAA PPL into a full FAA PPL and then take the FAA IR. What is involved in the former? Are you required to take the full FAA compliment of ground exams. and are you also required to take the FAA GFT?
<img src="eek.gif" border="0">
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Fuji Abound ]</p>
Specifically:
1 I seem to remember reading that if your aircraft type was not already on the N reg.it was unlikely it would be accepted on the US register. Is this so?
2 What are people’s actual experiences of the cost of transferring to the American register and of maintaining the associated trust company?
3 I also seem to remember that group aircraft cannot be operated on the N reg. Is that correct?
4 From a pilot’s point of view, I think the CAA PPL doesn’t in fact give you the privileges of full FAA PPL. (Restricted to use with a valid CAA PPL). Presumably therefore to obtain an FAA IR it is necessary to "convert" your CAA PPL into a full FAA PPL and then take the FAA IR. What is involved in the former? Are you required to take the full FAA compliment of ground exams. and are you also required to take the FAA GFT?
<img src="eek.gif" border="0">
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Fuji Abound ]</p>
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From: UK
I have a US Airman's Certificate which is based on my UK licence. You have to sit the FAA IR written test but it is not difficult by any means. The GFT is a practical flying test so you do not get much time to plan routes, holds etc. It does require you to expect the unexpected and I was given 3 partial panel approaches (one NDB, one VOR and one ILS) although once the examiner was happy I had my 5h!t in a basket he restored the panel for me.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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From: Bournemouth
You can add an IR to a FAA PPL based on a foreign license. You can also add type and class ratings (including things like complex checkouts). You can't add a night qualification, though <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> but if your JAA license already has the night qualification it will carry over to the FAA license.
Sorry, can't help with your other questions, but I'm sure someone out there knows.
FFF
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Sorry, can't help with your other questions, but I'm sure someone out there knows.
FFF
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Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Yorkshire
Make sure you pick a reputable and long establish Co to place your aircraft on the register!
As a UK citizen cannot legally own a US registered aircraft (only US citizens & US corporations) you are effectively giving the ownership rights away. There is not alot to stop them running off with your aircraft in theory.
I have seen £2500p.a. quoted by a UK company to be on the N Reg. so may be worth checking around and making sure that the cheap ones are going to deliver the goods.
Julian.
As a UK citizen cannot legally own a US registered aircraft (only US citizens & US corporations) you are effectively giving the ownership rights away. There is not alot to stop them running off with your aircraft in theory.
I have seen £2500p.a. quoted by a UK company to be on the N Reg. so may be worth checking around and making sure that the cheap ones are going to deliver the goods.
Julian.
Thread Starter
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From: UK
A bit more news from my investigations - it would seem that from the pilot’s point of view all his existing JAA license privileges can be exercised whilst flying an N register and the hours count for C of A renewal purposes and the JAA "bi-annual" can be taken in an N reg aircraft. So in short so far as I can see not much changes for the pilot who wishes to retain his JAA privileges and currency BUT the pilot can of course add a IR to his FAA license and use it in Europe in the N reg aircraft. I also gather the checks on the aircraft go from every 50 hours to 100 hours so presumably some savings there. However for anyone who has done it I guess there are some less obvious disadvantages. For example how much does it really end up costing transferring to the N reg? Thoughts or comments much appreciated.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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From: Bournemouth
Another point which I don't think anyone has mentioned yet:
The FAA license is only valid if you have a valid and current Biannual Flight Review - even if it is based on a foreign license. So, as well as keeping your JAR license current by flying 12 hours in the last 12 months of each 24 month period, you'd also need to get a BFR every 24 months. I don't know whether this needs to be done by an FAA instructor or not - maybe someone else knows?
FFF
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The FAA license is only valid if you have a valid and current Biannual Flight Review - even if it is based on a foreign license. So, as well as keeping your JAR license current by flying 12 hours in the last 12 months of each 24 month period, you'd also need to get a BFR every 24 months. I don't know whether this needs to be done by an FAA instructor or not - maybe someone else knows?
FFF
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From: UK
Quote
"So, as well as keeping your JAR license current by flying 12 hours in the last 12 months of each 24 month period, you'd also need to get a BFR every 24 months. I don't know whether this needs to be done by an FAA instructor or not - maybe someone else knows?"
Unquote
Yes it does need to be done by an FAA instructor but can be done in the UK.
"So, as well as keeping your JAR license current by flying 12 hours in the last 12 months of each 24 month period, you'd also need to get a BFR every 24 months. I don't know whether this needs to be done by an FAA instructor or not - maybe someone else knows?"
Unquote
Yes it does need to be done by an FAA instructor but can be done in the UK.
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From: South Yorkshire
So does anyone know of any reason why the BFR could not be combined with the JAA instructional flight (JAA BFR), providing an instructor with both FAA and JAA Instructor ratings could be foudn to take the flight with?
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You can do the JAA one-hour of instruction plus an FAA BFR in the same flight if you can get a dual qualified instructor. There is a guy at Oxford who does this.
He also does CAA IMC Rating renewals and FAA Instrument Competency checks together.
Incidentally if you have an FAA pilot certificate issued on the basis of a CAA licence it is only valid when the CAA licence is valid AND you have to comply with all FAA regulations before you use it. Under the Federal Aviatioon Regulations you must have done a Biennial Flight Review. The BFR can be done outside the US and it can be done on a non-N registered aircraft.
[ 15 January 2002: Message edited by: Capt PPRuNe ]</p>
He also does CAA IMC Rating renewals and FAA Instrument Competency checks together.
Incidentally if you have an FAA pilot certificate issued on the basis of a CAA licence it is only valid when the CAA licence is valid AND you have to comply with all FAA regulations before you use it. Under the Federal Aviatioon Regulations you must have done a Biennial Flight Review. The BFR can be done outside the US and it can be done on a non-N registered aircraft.
[ 15 January 2002: Message edited by: Capt PPRuNe ]</p>
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: UK
I am also confused by this N reg business. I have JAR PPL SEPL and have been told by someone that I cannot log hours in an N reg (or any non JAR registered) a/c (flying in the UK) unless I have an FAA equivalent licence. Please tell me this is bol****. I believe as long as the type is within the SEPL category I can log it. If I was flying in the USA I could understand the requirement for an FAA licence.
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From: north of barlu
It is IMPORTANT that you understand that you CANNOT fly an "N" registered aircraft in some states using an FAA licence that is only valid when accompanied by the licence from another state.
The answer is to get a FULL FAA licence ,if you are reading this then you have a computor so you can get one of the programs from transair that have all the FAA exam answers on and after a week or so of study you will be able to take the exams (i think a place at staverton can help with this )
I did my FAA CPL/IR ground exams this way at very little cost , but be warned the FAA IR may be easy on the ground but the flight test is is much harder than the UK IR as it requires you to "think on your feet" rather than fly around a pre determend route.
[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: A and C ]</p>
The answer is to get a FULL FAA licence ,if you are reading this then you have a computor so you can get one of the programs from transair that have all the FAA exam answers on and after a week or so of study you will be able to take the exams (i think a place at staverton can help with this )
I did my FAA CPL/IR ground exams this way at very little cost , but be warned the FAA IR may be easy on the ground but the flight test is is much harder than the UK IR as it requires you to "think on your feet" rather than fly around a pre determend route.
[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: A and C ]</p>
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From: TL487591
[quote]It is IMPORTANT that you understand that you CANNOT fly an "N" registered aircraft in some states using an FAA licence that is only valid when accompanied by the licence from another state.<hr></blockquote>
Examples being?
Examples being?
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From: 75N 16E
Just to re-itterate....An FAA PPL issued on the basis of a foreign licence is a VALID FAA licence. You can fly an N Reg aircraft anywhere with this licence (baring Cuba and Afganistan prehaps:-)
-You can add ratings, ie. FAA ME / IR
-You can add endorsements, ie. Complex / High Power
-You Cannot add a Night Rating if you foreign licence does not have one but if you get one on the foreign licence this can be added
-You can use this for a basis to train for a FAA CPL
-When issued the FAA CPL the licence is no longer 'restricted' but a full FAA licence including all stuff like Night flying
-There is no need to convert you FAA PPL Issued OBOFL to a full FAA PPL unless you want to let your foreign licence lapse
-You do need the Bi-annual flight review...simple flight with instructor every 24 months. Its possible to find an FAA CFI in the UK who'll be quite happy to carry it out for you for the price of a few beers, no paperwork needs to be submitted to the FAA.
I saw on the Flyer website a year or so a go, shares in an N Reg 172 being offered at Southampton, so there are a few around. Maybe someone needs to start an "N Reg" club, renting N reg aircraft in the UK, I know I'd rent from them...
Cheers. .EA
-You can add ratings, ie. FAA ME / IR
-You can add endorsements, ie. Complex / High Power
-You Cannot add a Night Rating if you foreign licence does not have one but if you get one on the foreign licence this can be added
-You can use this for a basis to train for a FAA CPL
-When issued the FAA CPL the licence is no longer 'restricted' but a full FAA licence including all stuff like Night flying
-There is no need to convert you FAA PPL Issued OBOFL to a full FAA PPL unless you want to let your foreign licence lapse
-You do need the Bi-annual flight review...simple flight with instructor every 24 months. Its possible to find an FAA CFI in the UK who'll be quite happy to carry it out for you for the price of a few beers, no paperwork needs to be submitted to the FAA.
I saw on the Flyer website a year or so a go, shares in an N Reg 172 being offered at Southampton, so there are a few around. Maybe someone needs to start an "N Reg" club, renting N reg aircraft in the UK, I know I'd rent from them...
Cheers. .EA
Joined: Jan 1999
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From: north of barlu
It was my understanding that the french are not happy about FAA licences based on the licence from another state and they wont let you fly an "N" aircraft in france on a UK PPL dispite the fact that both the FAA and UK CAA are happy to let you fly the aircraft.
However it was my understanding that the idea of this thread was to investigate going FAA and kicking the JAA farce into touch , if this is the aim then a FULL FAA licence is a must as other wise you must meet two sets of licencing requirments.
However it was my understanding that the idea of this thread was to investigate going FAA and kicking the JAA farce into touch , if this is the aim then a FULL FAA licence is a must as other wise you must meet two sets of licencing requirments.
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From: TL487591
[quote]It was my understanding that the french are not happy about FAA licences based on the licence from another state and they wont let you fly an "N" aircraft in france on a UK PPL<hr></blockquote>
I am delighted to confirm that the French have no problem with the operation of an N registered aircraft where the commander has an FAA licence secured on the basis of a valid foreign licence. This, provided that the underlying licence is current and appropriate to the type/class being flown, and the FAA BFR is current. This assumes that the aircraft is purely being operated on a Part 91 basis - which in the vast majority of cases, it will be.
Should you encounter any such problem, the FAA FSDO in Frankfurt would doubtless be delighted to hear from you.
There may however be a crossed wire here, lying behind your concern. Whereas, a UK PPL-holder is entitled to fly an N-reg aircraft in the UK, without the need to obtain an FAA licence, he is not entitled to take that aircraft abroad without first obtaining an FAA licence, albeit on the back of his own UK licence (JAR or otherwise). Hope this clarifies.
[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: 2Donkeys ]</p>
I am delighted to confirm that the French have no problem with the operation of an N registered aircraft where the commander has an FAA licence secured on the basis of a valid foreign licence. This, provided that the underlying licence is current and appropriate to the type/class being flown, and the FAA BFR is current. This assumes that the aircraft is purely being operated on a Part 91 basis - which in the vast majority of cases, it will be.
Should you encounter any such problem, the FAA FSDO in Frankfurt would doubtless be delighted to hear from you.
There may however be a crossed wire here, lying behind your concern. Whereas, a UK PPL-holder is entitled to fly an N-reg aircraft in the UK, without the need to obtain an FAA licence, he is not entitled to take that aircraft abroad without first obtaining an FAA licence, albeit on the back of his own UK licence (JAR or otherwise). Hope this clarifies.
[ 26 February 2002: Message edited by: 2Donkeys ]</p>
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From: north of barlu
2D Thanks for clearing that up its not a problem for me now as i have a full FAA licence but some years back i had some problems with a french opps inspectior that we sidestepped by my mate saying that he was going to fly the aircraft out of france on his full FAA licence because the guy was giving me a load of hassel about my FAA licence based on a british licence.
You have made it quite clear that that the french opps inspector was in error.
[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: A and C ]</p>
You have made it quite clear that that the french opps inspector was in error.
[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: A and C ]</p>
