Cobalt Aircraft

[jxk]

An interview with Colbalt designer here at Loop, about 3 minutes in:

LoopTV.Aero

[IO540]

Very interesting

At 650k USD (which is sure to rise) it better be damn good, with superb avionics integration etc.

[Fuji Abound]

Hmmm, the problem with a new aircraft like this (on the basis as pitched to be used by the owner flyer) is that it will have to be a fully capable IFR / IMC platform. Whereas in Europe the airways might be empty of GA that is most certainly not the case in the US. However equally at this level that means the aircraft needs to be FIKI and needs glass.

They therefore have some big hurdles to overcome compared with the likes of Cirrus and I suspect they are very unlikely to be competitiors for some time.

[IO540]

Maybe... Cirrus, and Socata and Mooney before them, have managed to sell a suprising number of IFR singles into Europe, in the vast majority of cases with no ice protection.

I think the salesman saying it is a tool for travelling is being less than honest. A tool for travelling needs 100% anti-ice and radar. Without these, your dispatch rate will be down to say 75% which is fine for "business travel" (as in meeting up with chums who you do business with) but is no good for real business travel (pre-scheduled customer visits).

And I say 75% even based on flying VMC on top enroute.

Interestingly, radar is a possibility in the Cobalt. Whether they will realise the value of it is another matter. But if they originally planned it as a jet, radar would have been a must.

European airways are empty of GA because too few pilots have an IR and too few airports have an IAP and most have limited opening hours; not because of lack of aircraft ice protection.

The other thing is more basic: is there really a market between the "SR22" level, and SE turboprops? A lot of salesmen think there isn't and that anybody with $700k can afford $2M. Together with the perceived need for pressurisation, and poor TP efficiency at low altitudes, this is why we see such a big gap between pistons and TPs.

[Fuji Abound]

Maybe... Cirrus, and Socata and Mooney before them, have managed to sell a suprising number of IFR singles into Europe, in the vast majority of cases with no ice protection.

Yes, but Europe is a small market. The aircraft must sell in the US to be viable. Very few Cirrus are now be sold without at least the get you out of trouble anti ice (which is in terms of the airframe is the same system as on the full FIKI model). You can order a 42 without FIKI, but does anyone? Mooney and Socata are sadly no longer producing aircraft. Whether they use it or not I just dont think the owner pilot in the US these days will buy without some form of wet wing and de-ice. In the US at least I think weather radar is less of an issue because the owner pilot would be nearly as happy with NEXRAD, even if it is not quite as good as weather radar. In Europe of course things are very different.

The other thing is more basic: is there really a market between the "SR22" level, and SE turboprops?

I recall a good article in Flying about how difficult it is to establish any new type or, to a greater degree, concept in aviation. Pilot's are rightly both a cautious and cynical lot. We have all seen new manufacturers come and go. The vast majority of potential punters in the market for a single engine turbo prop will buy from an established stable with a tried and tested design even if their product is 40% more costly. The price and concept would have to be very very attractive to persuade people otherwise - and if it were that attractive and that radical then the manufacturer will probably be bust in short order. You cant change physics, and since physics has such a big impact on aircraft design you cant readily change the cost of developing and certifying a radical new turboprop.

The reason Cirrius has been so successful and dominates GA today (and to a lesser extent Diamond) is because they created the illusion they had done something radical, when in fact they had not. They took reasonably tried and tested technology and put it together in a package that could take full advantage of the economies of producing a plastic aircraft. In fact a good example of the risk is that the only radical step Diamond took was to fit diesel engines in their 40s and 42s. To be fair they nearly pulled it off, but it also proves how dangerous taking such a leap of faith can be. (from one who very nearly bought and 42 and is entirely glad to have listened to your and others wisdom Peter!).

[IO540]

More here.

It makes me smile to see the MTOW as 3087lb. The TB20 is 3086lb

Maximum takeoff weight is planned to be 3,087 pounds, with a useful load of 1,213 pounds and a full-fuel payload of 552 pounds.

Exactly the same as the TB20 sales brochure, except that no appropriately equipped TB20 has a 1213lb payload.

So they are aiming for the same market, rather than the "four fat Americans" which the DA50 is aimed for.

[lancen]

with 262 hp, at 8,000 ft, I SERIOUSLY doubt they will ever get even close to 245 kts - unless in a pretty significant dive. I believe the plane hasn't flown yet, so think "hype". No great benefit to a canard and I see a lot of interference drag locations.