Need to vent: No VFR flying in the USA
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle, WA USA
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Need to vent: No VFR flying in the USA
Still no VFR flights here. If you're planning a trip out here and were thinking of going flying, you might want to think again. Also, as a private pilot, you probably don't want to travel to (or within) the US with any pilot gear.
There is talk of flight schools going belly up, and VFR never being re-instated. Rumours of flight service stations telling pilots "you might as well take your airplane apart".
Hopefully all of those are rumours will come to nought. It has only been one week since the tragedies of last week, and I imagine that VFR is so low down on the totem pole that it will be the last to be addressed by the government. However, it is potentially the hardest to address.
Perhaps we will see the introduction of mandatory flight plans (I don't really see what good that would do though from a security perspective). Perhaps all aircraft will be required to be assigned a transponder code? If so, the current system cannot handle that I'm told.
The point of this post? Just to get it off my chest. It goes without saying that I feel sorry for all the victims. But I also feel very sorry for anyone involved with private aviation here: stranded private pilots away from home, flight schools, CFIs, etc.
There is talk of flight schools going belly up, and VFR never being re-instated. Rumours of flight service stations telling pilots "you might as well take your airplane apart".
Hopefully all of those are rumours will come to nought. It has only been one week since the tragedies of last week, and I imagine that VFR is so low down on the totem pole that it will be the last to be addressed by the government. However, it is potentially the hardest to address.
Perhaps we will see the introduction of mandatory flight plans (I don't really see what good that would do though from a security perspective). Perhaps all aircraft will be required to be assigned a transponder code? If so, the current system cannot handle that I'm told.
The point of this post? Just to get it off my chest. It goes without saying that I feel sorry for all the victims. But I also feel very sorry for anyone involved with private aviation here: stranded private pilots away from home, flight schools, CFIs, etc.
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Know the feeling.I`m flying home on Thursday.All I`ve done this week is updated my web-site.
The whole WTC thing has really shook me.I can`t wait to get back with my family.
God bless America.
The whole WTC thing has really shook me.I can`t wait to get back with my family.
God bless America.
Safety First!
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I have always viewed the USA as the home of aviation. Pioneers, (allegedly, but that is another story) the first to take to the air in a powered controlled aeroplane (airplane for Americans), huge airlines, manufacturers of superior aircraft of all sizes, even adventures into space and to the moon...
Lets hope that the home of aviation recovers soon, and that restrictions dont become a standard, not only in the US but worldwide.
Kermie
Lets hope that the home of aviation recovers soon, and that restrictions dont become a standard, not only in the US but worldwide.
Kermie
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I just got an email from a mate in the US - he tells me some clowns in his area apparently flew VFR in either defiance or ignorance of the VFR ban - only to be interecepted by F-16's! I wonder how they slowed down!?
Heartfelt sympathies to all the innocent victims - and the growing number of economic victims, especially within aviation.
Andy
Heartfelt sympathies to all the innocent victims - and the growing number of economic victims, especially within aviation.
Andy
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Didn't really realize the effect the VFR ban was having until yesterday.
Had lunch yesterday at Brackett airport in LA, decent food, friendly waitresses, outdoor dining adjacent to the runway. Nice place for a late lunch on a fall day, helps me relax from all the B.S. of work, etc.
Usually the place is constantly busy, parallel runways, with flight trainig, other G.A. stuff. I've had to circe outside of the airspace just to get clearance to enter. In the hour I was there yesterday only one IFR flight departed, nothing landed. Cafe was deserted except for a couple of people, usually it's almost a wait for a table at that time of day. Instead of 2 waitresses, only one, and she wasn't overly busy.
About then I realized the far-reaching effect this whole WTC thing is going to have. All the way down to the poor waitress at the cafe who is making only about half her usual income.
Pretty much sucks.
Had lunch yesterday at Brackett airport in LA, decent food, friendly waitresses, outdoor dining adjacent to the runway. Nice place for a late lunch on a fall day, helps me relax from all the B.S. of work, etc.
Usually the place is constantly busy, parallel runways, with flight trainig, other G.A. stuff. I've had to circe outside of the airspace just to get clearance to enter. In the hour I was there yesterday only one IFR flight departed, nothing landed. Cafe was deserted except for a couple of people, usually it's almost a wait for a table at that time of day. Instead of 2 waitresses, only one, and she wasn't overly busy.
About then I realized the far-reaching effect this whole WTC thing is going to have. All the way down to the poor waitress at the cafe who is making only about half her usual income.
Pretty much sucks.
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For the latest up to date info check out www.aopa.org
Can't see it going on much longer.
"you might as well take your airplane apart"??????????????
Can't see it going on much longer.
"you might as well take your airplane apart"??????????????
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The current situation is that most VFR is allowed outside of "extended" class B airspace (i.e. in, below & above class B).
Bit of a bummer for those in the Bay Area...
There are also restrictions on various types of "for hire" operations, including VFR flight training. My guess is that the US Gov are afraid of some nutter looking for their 15 min of fame by going for a trial lesson with a cosh...
Bit of a bummer for those in the Bay Area...
There are also restrictions on various types of "for hire" operations, including VFR flight training. My guess is that the US Gov are afraid of some nutter looking for their 15 min of fame by going for a trial lesson with a cosh...
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Well as others have posted the new NOTAM is out. Still can't fly from my home airport though (about 10 miles from SFO and definitely under their Bravo).
I hope that in future days some additional restrictions are lifted.
If the FSS briefer quote I reproduced in my first post was true, I do hope that said briefer feels suitably chastened.
From the AOPA site:
"Some VFR operations restored
Boyer's town meeting interrupted with good news that FAA gives partial relief for VFR operations
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:20:58 PM — While conducting a Pilot Town Meeting in Columbus, Ohio, AOPA President Phil Boyer was called by his staff, advising him that a notam had just been released by the FAA authorizing the limited return of Part 91 VFR flights. "This is an crucial step in restoring the nation's important general aviation system. Rest assured the effort isn't finished," said Boyer.
VFR is now permitted for U.S. registered aircraft outside of "enhanced" Class B airspace; that is, Class B airspace within the lateral limits from the surface to infinity. No VFR flights are permitted over the top of Class B airspace, nor are VFR operations permitted from airports and airspace "under the shelf" of Class B airspace. In addition, several Temporary Flight Restrictions remain in effect.
Under the FAA notam, VFR flight training operations are prohibited. However, AOPA has been advised by the FAA that this will be discussed at a meeting with the White House on Thursday morning. In addition, restrictions continue to apply to banner towing, traffic watch/reporting, airship/blimps, and news reporting.
It is imperative that pilots receive a full briefing from FSS or DUATS and familiarize themselves with the text of the notam."
The NOTAM itself:
FDC 1/0224
ATTENTION ALL OPERATORS - SPECIAL NOTICE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR 91.139 (EMERGENCY AIR TRAFFIC RULES), PART 91 IFR AND VFR AIRCRAFT OPERATION ARE AUTHORIZED AS SPECIFIED IN NOTAMS 1/0111 AND 1/0112. [0111 and 0112 are identical--ed.] TO THE EXTENT THAT CONTRARY LANGUAGE EXISTS, THIS NOTAM SHALL SUPERCEDE.
NOTE: FOR PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, THE "TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S." MEANS THE AIRSPACE OVER THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES AND POSSESSIONS AND THE AIRSPACE OVERLYING THE WATERS BETWEEN THE U.S. COAST AND 12 NAUTICAL MILES FROM THE U.S. COAST.
NOTE: FOR PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, AN OVERFLIGHT MEANS THE AIRCRAFT TAKES OFF FROM AND LANDS AT LOCATIONS OUTSIDE THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES OR POSSESSIONS BUT ENROUTE TRANSITS THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S. WITHOUT LANDING IN THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES OR POSSESSIONS.
NOTE: FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE" IS DEFINED AS THAT AIRSPACE WITHIN THE EXTREME LATERAL LIMIT OF CLASS B AIRPACE FROM SURFACE TO INFINITY (I.E. SUCH OPERATIONS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED WITHIN, BELOW, OR ABOVE CLASS B AIRSPACE):
PART I. EXCEPT FOR THE OPERATIONS LISTED BELOW, PART 91 VFR OPERATION ARE PERMITTED WITHIN THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S., FOR U.S. REGISTERED AIRCRAFT PROVIDED THAT THOSE OPERATIONS ARE CONDUCTED OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE."
THE FOLLOWING TYPES OF OPERATIONS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED:
CIVIL AIRCRAFT VFR FLIGHT TRAINING OPERATIONS
BANNER TOWING OPERATIONS
SIGHT SEEING FLIGHT OPERATIONS CONDUCTED FOR COMPENSATION OR HIRE (UNDER PART 91, PURSUANT TO THE EXCEPTION IN 119.1(e)(2))
TRAFFIC WATCH FLIGHT OPERATIONS
AIRSHIP/BLIMP OPERATIONS
NEWS REPORTING OPERATIONS
EXAMPLES OF AUTHORIZED OPERATIONS, OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE" INCLUDE:
AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE REPOSITIONING.
BALLOONS.
CIVIL AIR PATROL.
GLIDERS.
MANUFACTURER PRODUCTION FLIGHT TESTS.
MAPPING/PHOTOGRAPHY MISSIONS.
PIPELINE/POWERLINE INSPECTIONS.
SEAPLANES.
SKYDIVING.
ULTRALIGHTS.
WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS.
PART II. THE FOLLOWING PART 91 IFR OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED WITHIN THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S.
FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT DEPARTING THE U.S. WITH NO INTERMEDIATE STOPS WITHIN THE U.S.
FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT OVERFLYING THE U.S. WITH A GROSS TAKEOFF WEIGHT LESS THAN 95,000 POUNDS.
PART III. AUTHORIZATIONS.
ALL PART 91 IFR/VFR OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED IN ALASKAN AIRSPACE.
WITHIN "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE," ALL MEDIVAC, RESCUE/RECOVERY, FIRE FIGHTING, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND EMERGENCY EVACUATION AIRCRAFT CAN CONDUCT IFR OR VFR OPERATIONS USING AN ATC-ASSIGNED DISCRETE BEACON CODE.
COMMERCIAL SPACE OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED AND MUST BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH ESTABLISHED PROCEDURES.
PART IV. IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF YOUR AUTHORIZATION STATUS CONTACT LOCAL FAA FLIGHT SERVICE STATION AT 1-800-WXBRIEF.
I hope that in future days some additional restrictions are lifted.
If the FSS briefer quote I reproduced in my first post was true, I do hope that said briefer feels suitably chastened.
From the AOPA site:
"Some VFR operations restored
Boyer's town meeting interrupted with good news that FAA gives partial relief for VFR operations
Wednesday, September 19, 2001 8:20:58 PM — While conducting a Pilot Town Meeting in Columbus, Ohio, AOPA President Phil Boyer was called by his staff, advising him that a notam had just been released by the FAA authorizing the limited return of Part 91 VFR flights. "This is an crucial step in restoring the nation's important general aviation system. Rest assured the effort isn't finished," said Boyer.
VFR is now permitted for U.S. registered aircraft outside of "enhanced" Class B airspace; that is, Class B airspace within the lateral limits from the surface to infinity. No VFR flights are permitted over the top of Class B airspace, nor are VFR operations permitted from airports and airspace "under the shelf" of Class B airspace. In addition, several Temporary Flight Restrictions remain in effect.
Under the FAA notam, VFR flight training operations are prohibited. However, AOPA has been advised by the FAA that this will be discussed at a meeting with the White House on Thursday morning. In addition, restrictions continue to apply to banner towing, traffic watch/reporting, airship/blimps, and news reporting.
It is imperative that pilots receive a full briefing from FSS or DUATS and familiarize themselves with the text of the notam."
The NOTAM itself:
FDC 1/0224
ATTENTION ALL OPERATORS - SPECIAL NOTICE EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR 91.139 (EMERGENCY AIR TRAFFIC RULES), PART 91 IFR AND VFR AIRCRAFT OPERATION ARE AUTHORIZED AS SPECIFIED IN NOTAMS 1/0111 AND 1/0112. [0111 and 0112 are identical--ed.] TO THE EXTENT THAT CONTRARY LANGUAGE EXISTS, THIS NOTAM SHALL SUPERCEDE.
NOTE: FOR PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, THE "TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S." MEANS THE AIRSPACE OVER THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES AND POSSESSIONS AND THE AIRSPACE OVERLYING THE WATERS BETWEEN THE U.S. COAST AND 12 NAUTICAL MILES FROM THE U.S. COAST.
NOTE: FOR PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, AN OVERFLIGHT MEANS THE AIRCRAFT TAKES OFF FROM AND LANDS AT LOCATIONS OUTSIDE THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES OR POSSESSIONS BUT ENROUTE TRANSITS THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S. WITHOUT LANDING IN THE U.S., ITS TERRITORIES OR POSSESSIONS.
NOTE: FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS NOTAM, "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE" IS DEFINED AS THAT AIRSPACE WITHIN THE EXTREME LATERAL LIMIT OF CLASS B AIRPACE FROM SURFACE TO INFINITY (I.E. SUCH OPERATIONS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED WITHIN, BELOW, OR ABOVE CLASS B AIRSPACE):
PART I. EXCEPT FOR THE OPERATIONS LISTED BELOW, PART 91 VFR OPERATION ARE PERMITTED WITHIN THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S., FOR U.S. REGISTERED AIRCRAFT PROVIDED THAT THOSE OPERATIONS ARE CONDUCTED OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE."
THE FOLLOWING TYPES OF OPERATIONS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED:
CIVIL AIRCRAFT VFR FLIGHT TRAINING OPERATIONS
BANNER TOWING OPERATIONS
SIGHT SEEING FLIGHT OPERATIONS CONDUCTED FOR COMPENSATION OR HIRE (UNDER PART 91, PURSUANT TO THE EXCEPTION IN 119.1(e)(2))
TRAFFIC WATCH FLIGHT OPERATIONS
AIRSHIP/BLIMP OPERATIONS
NEWS REPORTING OPERATIONS
EXAMPLES OF AUTHORIZED OPERATIONS, OUTSIDE "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE" INCLUDE:
AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE REPOSITIONING.
BALLOONS.
CIVIL AIR PATROL.
GLIDERS.
MANUFACTURER PRODUCTION FLIGHT TESTS.
MAPPING/PHOTOGRAPHY MISSIONS.
PIPELINE/POWERLINE INSPECTIONS.
SEAPLANES.
SKYDIVING.
ULTRALIGHTS.
WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS.
PART II. THE FOLLOWING PART 91 IFR OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED WITHIN THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S.
FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT DEPARTING THE U.S. WITH NO INTERMEDIATE STOPS WITHIN THE U.S.
FOREIGN REGISTERED AIRCRAFT OVERFLYING THE U.S. WITH A GROSS TAKEOFF WEIGHT LESS THAN 95,000 POUNDS.
PART III. AUTHORIZATIONS.
ALL PART 91 IFR/VFR OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED IN ALASKAN AIRSPACE.
WITHIN "ENHANCED CLASS B AIRSPACE," ALL MEDIVAC, RESCUE/RECOVERY, FIRE FIGHTING, LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND EMERGENCY EVACUATION AIRCRAFT CAN CONDUCT IFR OR VFR OPERATIONS USING AN ATC-ASSIGNED DISCRETE BEACON CODE.
COMMERCIAL SPACE OPERATIONS ARE AUTHORIZED AND MUST BE APPROVED IN ACCORDANCE WITH ESTABLISHED PROCEDURES.
PART IV. IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF YOUR AUTHORIZATION STATUS CONTACT LOCAL FAA FLIGHT SERVICE STATION AT 1-800-WXBRIEF.
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What is class B airspace in the US? In the UK it is upper airspace, above FL245 (IIRC), so the idea of "enhanced" class B would be pretty much everything. Guess it must be different??
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In the US, Class B airspace is found around the largest airports, and is usually layered "like an upside-down wedding cake" - e.g. 0-8000' out to 10DME, 2000-8000 to 12DME, 4000'-8000' to 20DME etc. AOPA has a pretty picture 38.200.9.137/class_b.html
To enter class B airspace you need a Mode C transponder, radio & ATC clearance, and it's often quite easy to transit the outer areas VFR.
[ Edited for URL typo ]
[ 21 September 2001: Message edited by: FrontWindowSeat ]
To enter class B airspace you need a Mode C transponder, radio & ATC clearance, and it's often quite easy to transit the outer areas VFR.
[ Edited for URL typo ]
[ 21 September 2001: Message edited by: FrontWindowSeat ]
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I went flying out of YTZ on Saturday, was warned by the briefer at Flight Service that if I flew anywhere near the border I'd be intercepted. Bummer- I was going to do the falls thing. Went north instead, still gorgeous out.
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I'm travelling out to Florida from UK in a couple of weeks for a long-booked vacation, renting a warrior and hoping to fly a lot of VFR hours, not just around Florida but also across to the Bahamas. The airport I'm renting from is in "enhanced" class B and can't fly at the moment. Just keeping fingers crossed that some agreement to allow VFR flights out of these airports happens in the next couple of weeks. I think my Bahamas trip will definitely be out.
In the scheme of things my worries are so insignificant and if the airspace remains closed then it's understandable, after what has happened. I hope VFR arrangements can be extended, though.
In the scheme of things my worries are so insignificant and if the airspace remains closed then it's understandable, after what has happened. I hope VFR arrangements can be extended, though.
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BayAreaLondoner - Hope you get airborne soon.
I flew the VFR corridors in San Diego in April and couldn't believe the freedom they offered, over downtown and the Nimitz class warships.. I learnt at Titusville and flew along the shuttle landing facility too
I have a feeling all that may be a thing of the past but I hope not.
I flew the VFR corridors in San Diego in April and couldn't believe the freedom they offered, over downtown and the Nimitz class warships.. I learnt at Titusville and flew along the shuttle landing facility too
I have a feeling all that may be a thing of the past but I hope not.
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whoateallthepies - The FAA published another NOTAM today that permits VFR training in most of the enhanced Class B airspace (expect Boston I believe). AOPA has full info at www.aopa.org
This means that you must have a CFI on-board (and there are some weight restrictions on the aircraft). But with any luck you'll be alright for your Florida flight training.
Airscream - that freedom is/was amazing isn't it? Glad you got to experience it! I feel lucky to have experienced it - pretty much go anywhere whenever you want. I hope it doesn't become a thing of the past for private pilots not engaged in flight training, but we'll just have to see.
This means that you must have a CFI on-board (and there are some weight restrictions on the aircraft). But with any luck you'll be alright for your Florida flight training.
Airscream - that freedom is/was amazing isn't it? Glad you got to experience it! I feel lucky to have experienced it - pretty much go anywhere whenever you want. I hope it doesn't become a thing of the past for private pilots not engaged in flight training, but we'll just have to see.
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...and what about the special VFR corridor up the Hudson? Pretty slim chance of that happening again now...... I have some old photos from when I flew up there at 800 feet in a Grumman, under the height of the twin towers, past all of Manhattan..... happy, innocent days.....
