CAA PPL Licence

[Whopity]

Any flying you do with an instructor is for the purpose of obtaining or re-validating a licence or rating; otherwise you don't need an instructor! Art 52 is there to stop people flying solo without a licence but lists an exception with regard to training. It does not say that you cannot do further training if you have applied for a licence. The licence will be dated from the date you passed the skill test and it is not unreasonable to do consolidation (revalidation or differences) training whilst you are waiting. An instructor is entitled to send solo any student they deem suitable i.e. they comply with Par 1, provided they hold a valid medical certificate and act under the instructor's authorisation. If the pilot wanted to fly off and visit his mate at the other end of the country, an instructor would probably not deem that as training and would not authorise the flight.

JAR-FCL was blamed for many things but very little of it was ever transformed into UK Law.

[SlipSlider]

Any flying you do with an instructor is for the purpose of obtaining or re-validating a licence or rating; otherwise you don't need an instructor!

Perhaps being picky, but not entirely true, surely? ... eg having an instructor aboard for 3 t/offs and landings if out of 90 days currency for carrying passengers. Licence and rating would still be current (i.e. you could do the necessary solo) so not re-validating, and if you want company it can only be provided by an instructor, not a vanilla PPL.

[mrmum]

Any flying you do with an instructor is for the purpose of obtaining or re-validating a licence or rating

I would disagree with that statement. If you've just passed the LST for a JAA PPL(A), then your licence will be valid for 5 years and your SEP(L) rating for 2 years. Any flying you do in the first year is irrelevant for revalidation purposes, so if you do 10 hours of dual with a FI just for hand-holding or club currency purposes, that doesn't meet the criteria.

It does not say that you cannot do further training if you have applied for a licence.

Quite correct, I agree. As long as that training is for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a licence or rating. So therefore, not just some general flying to keep current.

it is not unreasonable to do consolidation (revalidation or differences) training whilst you are waiting.

If it's differences training, then yes, my interpretation would be that's okay as it's a variation of a rating. However I still can't see how you are interpreting consolidation/currency flying as meeting the criteria for the exemption to apply.

It seems to me that we are both reading the same couple of lines in the ANO, but interpreting it differently, so perhaps we'll just have to accept we disagree. I do though totally agree with you that it's reasonable, sensible even to let people keep flying while waiting for the CAA to process their application. I just don't think it's legal unfortunately! I would also accept that plenty of people share your opinion, judging by some of the earlier posts, stating their RFs/FTOs/FIs let them fly during the period in question.

[glorygal]

I passed my skills test and sent off my licence application and it took 3.5 weeks to come back.

I have continued to fly while waiting for my licence, but yes I am still technically a "student" as I don't have the piece of paper to prove otherwise so I have to pay an instructor £40 an hour to "supervise" me when I disappear xc and cannot carry passengers... I'm sure I don't remember it being this way when I got my driving licence but it was so long ago that I can't remember.

[BillieBob]

I would also accept that plenty of people share your opinion

Including the CAA which, when push comes to shove, is the only opinion that counts.

[Airbusboy]

Hello Every one. Couldn't find enough replies to confirm this.

My instructor was saying that once all the paper work is ready from my end to apply for the PPL licence I can physically take it all to the CAA Gatwick? Is that correct? Is that the same place where they do Initial Class 1 medicals?

Also would this speed up the whole 2-4 weeks process? And once it was ready could I collect it my self?

[stevelup]

You can drop and collect. No-one really knows if it saves any time - I imagine it shaves off at least a handful of days.

I dropped mine off and got it back exactly three weeks later.

One of the advantages of dropping it off is that they check everything except the logbook there and then at the counter - so if anything is missing or any mistakes have been made, they will pick up on it straight away.

[Whopity]

I would disagree with that statement. If you've just passed the LST for a JAA PPL(A), then your licence will be valid for 5 years and your SEP(L) rating for 2 years.

Until you have the licence in your hand and you have signed it, its not valid for anything! If you wish to remain current or gain addituonal experience outside the legal minima, then there is no reason why this should not be deemed as training for the purpose of obtaining or re-validating a licence or rating. If you don't directly use it for that purpose it matters not, the point is you legally can do if you so wish!

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Perhaps being picky, but not entirely true, surely? ... eg having an instructor aboard for 3 t/offs and landings if out of 90 days currency for carrying passengers. Licence and rating would still be current (i.e. you could do the necessary solo) so not re-validating, and if you want company it can only be provided by an instructor, not a vanilla PPL.

You do not need an instructor for this.

[T18]

Hi All,

This has been an interesting debate, my friend has finally recieved the covetted licence, the CAA performed well and kept him in the loop. However the downside was that his flight school took three and a half weeks to send the paperwork to the CAA, meaning that he was unable to use the privelages of the licence while on holiday.

So well done CAA, not so well done flight school after he has shelled out nearly £10k.

T18

[Redbird72]

Why did he leave his school to send it off, I thought is was the applicants responsibility to do it?

My school checked my forms to ensure all the information was present and correct, and then I sent it off the next day (after scanning my log book in case the Royal Mail destroyed it!).

[mykul10]

A couple of points on the above...

1) Driving Licence - its a different story - when I did my test many centuries ago, I was able to rip off L plates and drive home from the test centre. I think same still applies.

2) Licence valid from...? Be careful here. The SEP rating is valid 24 months from date of test. PPL licence is valid for 5 years from date of issue - look at both and you'll see.I have known people with a lapsed SEP because they assumed 24 months from date of licence issue.

This means that the time lapsed during application and issue of the PPL is "lost" as far as SEP goes.

3) I had always thought that there was ho problem in allowing pilots awaiting issue of PPL to continue as Student. Will have to rethink now

[I Love Flying]

Airbusboy

I passed my Skills Test in April (yay!) and on the next working day I hand-delivered my paperwork to the CAA at Gatwick (after the flying club 'chief' had checked everything was in order first).

I was quoted a lead time of three weeks and exactly three weeks to the day I received a phone call to say that I could collect my shiny new licence!

Whilst I was waiting for the licence to arrive, I asked if I could fly solo, and I was told by my club that I could, as I would be flying on my instructor's licence still.

Hope this helps.

[Pakouwi]

That's exactly what they should do over here in the UK, same as in France once you pass your driving test

[worrab]

Congratulations on thread resurrection.

That's exactly what they should do over here in the UK

Are you referring to flying solo post skill-test and pre licence arrival? You can fly solo - but only with the say-so of a flying instructor who must authorise your flight.

You may only carry passengers if the instructor is in the plane with you.

[BillieBob]

....as I would be flying on my instructor's licence still.

It's time this ridiculous misconception was stamped out. A student is never "flying on his instructor's licence"; he is flying under the terms of the ANO (Article 50(2)) and the EASA Aircrew Regulation that permit a person to act as PIC of an aircraft without holding a valid licence if under training. Nothing that a solo student might do, up to and including a blatant breach of the regulations, will have any effect on the instructor's licence.