CAA PPL Licence
Thread Starter
CAA PPL Licence
Hello you knowledgeable people, A friend of mine is due to undertake his skills test next week-end, on completion how long for the CAA to issue the licence?
Am I right in thinking that the application may be monitered during the waiting period?
I have just been perusing the CAA charges, my goodness they are eye watering these days.
Thanks, T18
Am I right in thinking that the application may be monitered during the waiting period?
I have just been perusing the CAA charges, my goodness they are eye watering these days.
Thanks, T18
Last edited by T18; 4th Jul 2010 at 15:51. Reason: Typo
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Downwind
Age: 40
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eyewatering indeed!!
Took mine 3 weeks and 1 day to process. You can call them to confirm reciept but they won't have much more information than that. I recieved my licence on a Monday, I called them the previous Thursday to check the progress and they informed me they hadn't yet processed it but should be soon. When I received the licence it was interesting to note that the valid from date was the Friday i.e. the day after I phoned them and I had it in my hand the following Monday! Evidently it takes three weeks for them to look at it and 24 to process it and stick in an envelope.
BTW, they use Fedex not Royal Mail, so they will give you a call after a week or so to take payment for return postage aprox £4.50 - apparently this is not covered in the £170 original fee paid, greedy
!
On a separate note, I applied for an AFPEX account two weeks ago - today I received my user name in the post and they advised the password will be sent by email in the next WEEKS!
Took mine 3 weeks and 1 day to process. You can call them to confirm reciept but they won't have much more information than that. I recieved my licence on a Monday, I called them the previous Thursday to check the progress and they informed me they hadn't yet processed it but should be soon. When I received the licence it was interesting to note that the valid from date was the Friday i.e. the day after I phoned them and I had it in my hand the following Monday! Evidently it takes three weeks for them to look at it and 24 to process it and stick in an envelope.
BTW, they use Fedex not Royal Mail, so they will give you a call after a week or so to take payment for return postage aprox £4.50 - apparently this is not covered in the £170 original fee paid, greedy
!On a separate note, I applied for an AFPEX account two weeks ago - today I received my user name in the post and they advised the password will be sent by email in the next WEEKS!
Thread Starter
Licence issue
Many thanks for the prompt response folks.
My friend is charged I believe £160 per hour for a C152, thats two and half hours for the test plus the fee, crazy prices!
T18
My friend is charged I believe £160 per hour for a C152, thats two and half hours for the test plus the fee, crazy prices!
T18
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Yorkshire
Age: 41
Posts: 691
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eyewatering indeed!!
Took mine 3 weeks and 1 day to process. You can call them to confirm reciept but they won't have much more information than that. I recieved my licence on a Monday, I called them the previous Thursday to check the progress and they informed me they hadn't yet processed it but should be soon. When I received the licence it was interesting to note that the valid from date was the Friday i.e. the day after I phoned them and I had it in my hand the following Monday! Evidently it takes three weeks for them to look at it and 24 to process it and stick in an envelope.
BTW, they use Fedex not Royal Mail, so they will give you a call after a week or so to take payment for return postage aprox £4.50 - apparently this is not covered in the £170 original fee paid, greedy!
On a separate note, I applied for an AFPEX account two weeks ago - today I received my user name in the post and they advised the password will be sent by email in the next WEEKS!
Took mine 3 weeks and 1 day to process. You can call them to confirm reciept but they won't have much more information than that. I recieved my licence on a Monday, I called them the previous Thursday to check the progress and they informed me they hadn't yet processed it but should be soon. When I received the licence it was interesting to note that the valid from date was the Friday i.e. the day after I phoned them and I had it in my hand the following Monday! Evidently it takes three weeks for them to look at it and 24 to process it and stick in an envelope.
BTW, they use Fedex not Royal Mail, so they will give you a call after a week or so to take payment for return postage aprox £4.50 - apparently this is not covered in the £170 original fee paid, greedy
!On a separate note, I applied for an AFPEX account two weeks ago - today I received my user name in the post and they advised the password will be sent by email in the next WEEKS!
that return postage fee is new then, cheeky!
Thread Starter
Legal to fly
My understanding is that you may fly solo until you have the expensive grubby brown document in your mitt!
Thereafter you now have a licence to learn, I'm still learning after twenty three years.
Thereafter you now have a licence to learn, I'm still learning after twenty three years.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Up North
Age: 57
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Legal to Fly?
T18
That used to be the case pre JAA, your instructor could just keep sending you on solo flights after your GFT, until you got your PPL issued.
This is no longer the case, The ANO has been amended, supervised solo is only legal when for the issue of a licence or rating, once you've applied for a licence, it's dual only or stay on the ground until you have received and signed your PPL.
That used to be the case pre JAA, your instructor could just keep sending you on solo flights after your GFT, until you got your PPL issued.
This is no longer the case, The ANO has been amended, supervised solo is only legal when for the issue of a licence or rating, once you've applied for a licence, it's dual only or stay on the ground until you have received and signed your PPL.
I suppose the American concept of issuing a temporary license straight after the skills test to tide you over until the real one arrives is too much like a good idea for our incompetent CAA...
Thread Starter
mrmum,
Thank you for the info, I wonder if the reason is to allow the CAA to check all of the paper work prior to issue. I thought that the instructer/examiner would do the check then sign the the paper work accordingly.
Would it be cynical of me to suppose that the CAA check the paper work again as part of the justification for separating us from so much cash.
T18
Thank you for the info, I wonder if the reason is to allow the CAA to check all of the paper work prior to issue. I thought that the instructer/examiner would do the check then sign the the paper work accordingly.
Would it be cynical of me to suppose that the CAA check the paper work again as part of the justification for separating us from so much cash.
T18
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Age: 49
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mrmum
This is no longer the case, The ANO has been amended, supervised solo is only legal when for the issue of a licence or rating, once you've applied for a licence, it's dual only or stay on the ground until you have received and signed your PPL.
Flight crew licence requirement – Exception for solo flying training
52 (1)
A person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a pilot's licence or the inclusion or variation of any rating in a pilot's licence within the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, without being the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
52 (1)
A person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a pilot's licence or the inclusion or variation of any rating in a pilot's licence within the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, without being the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
Flight crew licence requirement – Exception for dual flying training
53 (1)
A person may act as pilot of an aircraft of which the flight crew required to be carried by or under this Order is not more than one pilot for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a pilot's licence or the inclusion or variation of any rating in a pilot's licence within the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, without being the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
53 (1)
A person may act as pilot of an aircraft of which the flight crew required to be carried by or under this Order is not more than one pilot for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a pilot's licence or the inclusion or variation of any rating in a pilot's licence within the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, without being the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Downwind
Age: 40
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One cannot exercise the privileges of the licence until they physically hold it. It must be signed in ink by the holder to be valid. Therefore, you cannot carry passengers.You can however complete as much solo flights as you like between skills test and licence receipt. You would be flying the same way as when a student i.e. under your Flight Instructors supervision/permission. You cannot fly solo unless it is for an additional licence / rating - this is overcome by the fact you need 150 hours P1 before enrolling on a CPL course (assuming modular), such hours logged would count toward that rating. So if it is not your intent to obtain a CPL after PPL just don't tell that to the CAA in case of an event that will never happen; they ask why you logged P1 hours between skills test and licence validity date.
At least that is my interpretation of the red tape.
EDIT: Just to add further to my earlier post in this topic, NATS have now sent me my password for AFPEx and the below might be interest to some people;
From their email:
At least that is my interpretation of the red tape.
EDIT: Just to add further to my earlier post in this topic, NATS have now sent me my password for AFPEx and the below might be interest to some people;
From their email:
...In addition, we are developing an online Computer Based Training (CBT) package. This is currently in a mature draft form so we welcome feedback, suggestions and constructive criticism from you using the form provided on the website. We hope that the CBT will help to provide you with a positive experience of AFPEx.
The site can be accessed by using the following link: User Notice . We hope to enrich the ‘myafpex’ website with a user originated content area (links, tips on use, etc) that will help you when using the system. Any suggestions for this area are appreciated.
The site can be accessed by using the following link: User Notice . We hope to enrich the ‘myafpex’ website with a user originated content area (links, tips on use, etc) that will help you when using the system. Any suggestions for this area are appreciated.
So you're suggesting that the CAA cannot trust their examiners to do that? Perhaps they should work on improving that, rather than a moronic situation where a pilot who has PASSED a skills test has fewer flight privileges than one who is still training!
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Up North
Age: 57
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Stevelup
As you say, the wording of both quotes from the ANO are almost identical, very interesting. If I could get my laptop to open the CAP393 pdf I'd have a good look, but from the quotes it looks like you're maybe right.
Ryan5252
That is indeed a possible way round the restriction, however not everyone is or indeed should allege, they are doing a modular CPL. Should something happen to draw attention during the "solo" flights, you may have to justify your assertation that you were hours building for a CPL. Also it's not necessarily the CAA you'll have to convince, but an insurance company, from my experience they will seize upon any opportunity to not pay a claim.
As you say, the wording of both quotes from the ANO are almost identical, very interesting. If I could get my laptop to open the CAP393 pdf I'd have a good look, but from the quotes it looks like you're maybe right.
Ryan5252
That is indeed a possible way round the restriction, however not everyone is or indeed should allege, they are doing a modular CPL. Should something happen to draw attention during the "solo" flights, you may have to justify your assertation that you were hours building for a CPL. Also it's not necessarily the CAA you'll have to convince, but an insurance company, from my experience they will seize upon any opportunity to not pay a claim.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chesham, EGTB Booker
Age: 42
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i passed my skilltest on the 13th of June and they received it the 21st.
I called them each week but they said they would not process it until end of this week. He said it normally takes them 10 days but admitted they are far behind.
checking on the caa website it mentions they are processing ppl applications from 11-14th of June...
I called them each week but they said they would not process it until end of this week. He said it normally takes them 10 days but admitted they are far behind.
checking on the caa website it mentions they are processing ppl applications from 11-14th of June...
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Age: 49
Posts: 862
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I asked my CFI - he said that solo flying between completion of the course and grant of the licence is OK.
I'd say that ultimately the final word lies with whoever you are doing your training with. You are flying their aircraft on their licence and their insurance - it's up to them whether they let you fly solo whilst you are waiting?
I'd say that ultimately the final word lies with whoever you are doing your training with. You are flying their aircraft on their licence and their insurance - it's up to them whether they let you fly solo whilst you are waiting?
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chesham, EGTB Booker
Age: 42
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah I also asked if I can fly solo without actually having the licence in my hand and they agreed. So I will be doign some circuits tomorrow. So i get my 3 take offs and landings and can practice on my landing skills before for the first time ever inviting my girlfriend aboard 
This is no longer the case, The ANO has been amended, supervised solo is only legal when for the issue of a licence or rating, once you've applied for a licence, it's dual only or stay on the ground until you have received and signed your PPL.
52.—(1) A person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a pilot’s licence or the inclusion or variation of any rating in a pilot’s licence within the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, without being
the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are that—
(a) the person is at least 16 years of age;
(b) the person is the holder of a valid medical certificate to the effect that the person is fit to act as pilot in command, issued by a person approved by the CAA;
(c) the person complies with any conditions subject to which that medical certificate was issued;
(d) no other person is carried in the aircraft;
(f) the person acts in accordance with instructions given by another person holding a pilot’s licence granted under this Order or a JAA licence, in each case being a licence which includes a flight instructor rating, a flying instructor’s rating or an assistant flying instructor’s rating entitling that other person to give instruction in flying the type of aircraft being flown.
the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are that—
(a) the person is at least 16 years of age;
(b) the person is the holder of a valid medical certificate to the effect that the person is fit to act as pilot in command, issued by a person approved by the CAA;
(c) the person complies with any conditions subject to which that medical certificate was issued;
(d) no other person is carried in the aircraft;
(f) the person acts in accordance with instructions given by another person holding a pilot’s licence granted under this Order or a JAA licence, in each case being a licence which includes a flight instructor rating, a flying instructor’s rating or an assistant flying instructor’s rating entitling that other person to give instruction in flying the type of aircraft being flown.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Up North
Age: 57
Posts: 557
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying between LST and PPL issue
Whopity
I concede I worded that last post very badly, I mustn't dress up opinion and conjecture as fact or law. I'll consider my words more carefully in future.
What I really should have said is that when I was an AFI and subsequently a junior FI, it was normal practice to be able to authorise and send people on "solo" flights after their GFT while waiting for the CAA to process their PPL. Then a few years ago, a "senior" FE who had just conducted a successful LST for a student at my club, said it was not legal to do that anymore. The JAA had come into being in that time and he inferred that was when things had changed, admittedly, I've never bothered to find an old copy of the ANO to check.
However, I stand by the point I was trying to make that once you've passed the LST, your PPL course must be complete, therefore the ANO article 52 exemption (below, sorry haven't figured out how to do quotes) to having an appropriate licence, does not apply, because you are no longer acting as PiC for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a Pilot's licence or rating. Except of course you are doing a night qualification, or just possibly, building PiC time for a modular CPL.
Flight crew licence requirement – Exception for solo flying training
52.—(1) A person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a pilot’s licence or the inclusion or variation of any rating in a pilot’s licence within the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, without being the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are that—
(a)the person is at least 16 years of age;
(b)the person is the holder of a valid medical certificate to the effect that the person is fit to act as pilot in command, issued by a person approved by the CAA;
(c)the person complies with any conditions subject to which that medical certificate was issued;
(d)no other person is carried in the aircraft;
(e)the aircraft is not flying for the purpose of commercial air transport, public transport or aerial work other than aerial work which consists of the giving of instruction in flying or the conducting of flying tests; and
(f)the person acts in accordance with instructions given by another person holding a pilot’s licence granted under this Order or a JAA licence, in each case being a licence which includes a flight instructor rating, a flying instructor’s rating or an assistant flying instructor’s rating entitling that other person to give instruction in flying the type of aircraft being flown.
So, no any FI cannot just send anyone over 16 with a medical solo whenever they feel like it, they have to satisfy the paragraph (1) criteria as well as paragraph (2). While I agree with your last sentence, that the intent of the law is not to be awkward with people in limbo between LST and PPL issue, that is what's been written. It wouldn't be the first time we've ended up with not quite the leglislation that was intended.
I concede I worded that last post very badly, I mustn't dress up opinion and conjecture as fact or law. I'll consider my words more carefully in future.
What I really should have said is that when I was an AFI and subsequently a junior FI, it was normal practice to be able to authorise and send people on "solo" flights after their GFT while waiting for the CAA to process their PPL. Then a few years ago, a "senior" FE who had just conducted a successful LST for a student at my club, said it was not legal to do that anymore. The JAA had come into being in that time and he inferred that was when things had changed, admittedly, I've never bothered to find an old copy of the ANO to check.
However, I stand by the point I was trying to make that once you've passed the LST, your PPL course must be complete, therefore the ANO article 52 exemption (below, sorry haven't figured out how to do quotes) to having an appropriate licence, does not apply, because you are no longer acting as PiC for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a Pilot's licence or rating. Except of course you are doing a night qualification, or just possibly, building PiC time for a modular CPL.
Flight crew licence requirement – Exception for solo flying training
52.—(1) A person may act as pilot in command of an aircraft for the purpose of becoming qualified for the grant or renewal of a pilot’s licence or the inclusion or variation of any rating in a pilot’s licence within the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, without being the holder of an appropriate licence granted or rendered valid under this Order, if the conditions in paragraph (2) are satisfied.
(2) The conditions referred to in paragraph (1) are that—
(a)the person is at least 16 years of age;
(b)the person is the holder of a valid medical certificate to the effect that the person is fit to act as pilot in command, issued by a person approved by the CAA;
(c)the person complies with any conditions subject to which that medical certificate was issued;
(d)no other person is carried in the aircraft;
(e)the aircraft is not flying for the purpose of commercial air transport, public transport or aerial work other than aerial work which consists of the giving of instruction in flying or the conducting of flying tests; and
(f)the person acts in accordance with instructions given by another person holding a pilot’s licence granted under this Order or a JAA licence, in each case being a licence which includes a flight instructor rating, a flying instructor’s rating or an assistant flying instructor’s rating entitling that other person to give instruction in flying the type of aircraft being flown.
So, no any FI cannot just send anyone over 16 with a medical solo whenever they feel like it, they have to satisfy the paragraph (1) criteria as well as paragraph (2). While I agree with your last sentence, that the intent of the law is not to be awkward with people in limbo between LST and PPL issue, that is what's been written. It wouldn't be the first time we've ended up with not quite the leglislation that was intended.