Quadrantal Rule Help
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Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Sheffield
Quadrantal Rule Help
I'll probably make myself sound very dumb but what the hell....
when does one fly using quadrantal flight levels as opposed to "any old altitude" on qnh?
Is it simply when one is flying IFR?
If so, when does a flight become IFR? Does the commander need to inform the ATCO when filing an airborne flightplan that they intend to carry the flight out under IFR?
I do hope these questions are understandable.
Thanks in advance
when does one fly using quadrantal flight levels as opposed to "any old altitude" on qnh?
Is it simply when one is flying IFR?
If so, when does a flight become IFR? Does the commander need to inform the ATCO when filing an airborne flightplan that they intend to carry the flight out under IFR?
I do hope these questions are understandable.
Thanks in advance
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Surrey
You use quadrantals when you are flying above the transition level (which varies around the UK) and outside controlled airspace. You 'Must' use quadrantals if you are IFR, unless you are asked to fly at some other level (Eg. under a procedural service) or are manoeuvring. You can fly quadrantals (and the CAA recommend) if you are VFR.
As you are OCAS, IFR is simply in your mind, you don't need to tell anyone - nor does anyone generally care.
As you are OCAS, IFR is simply in your mind, you don't need to tell anyone - nor does anyone generally care.
Joined: May 2001
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From: UK
1. When above the transition altitude and IFR, unless otherwise directed by ATC, or unable to comply because of a TMA being in the way,
2. IFR is either a state of mind and terrain, or a state of weather. If you are IMC then you are IFR, if you are VMC then you may be either VFR or IFR, but if IFR you should also be above the MSA.
3. If you are receiving a service you should inform the service provider of the flight rules under which you are operating.
4. OCAS you can change the rules as often and whenever you like to comply with 2. In CAS you will have been given a clearance and so must comply with that clearance or request a change.
2. IFR is either a state of mind and terrain, or a state of weather. If you are IMC then you are IFR, if you are VMC then you may be either VFR or IFR, but if IFR you should also be above the MSA.
3. If you are receiving a service you should inform the service provider of the flight rules under which you are operating.
4. OCAS you can change the rules as often and whenever you like to comply with 2. In CAS you will have been given a clearance and so must comply with that clearance or request a change.
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 29th June 2010 at 16:01.
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: UK
2. IFR is either a state of mind and terrain, or a state of weather.
Joined: May 2001
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From: UK
Whopity
Are you kidding me
, I am sure you read my post! I was trying to be a little poetic perhaps, but I am sure you would have understood from my post that:
IFR - is a state of mind, because if the weather is VMC you can elect to be IFR or VFR, but if the weather is IMC then you can only be IFR. Of course so we dont get into the usual pedantic discussion we all know that if you are in class A you can only be IFR even if the weather is VMC, (unless the class A goes to the ground, in which case you can be IFR or SVFR). Take it as read that if our clearance is IFR then you cant be VFR even if the weather is VMC. Also take it as read that legally you cant be IFR unless your license priviliges match the flight conditions and the class of airspace.
So to sum up IFR has everything to do with the weather because you must be IFR in IMC. You can elect (state of mind) to be either IFR or VFR in VMC.
There, do you feel better now? I know, I know the old chestnut but I have a feeling you and I got to grips with it a long time ago and we dont need to score points on this one.
Are you kidding me
, I am sure you read my post! I was trying to be a little poetic perhaps, but I am sure you would have understood from my post that:IFR - is a state of mind, because if the weather is VMC you can elect to be IFR or VFR, but if the weather is IMC then you can only be IFR. Of course so we dont get into the usual pedantic discussion we all know that if you are in class A you can only be IFR even if the weather is VMC, (unless the class A goes to the ground, in which case you can be IFR or SVFR). Take it as read that if our clearance is IFR then you cant be VFR even if the weather is VMC. Also take it as read that legally you cant be IFR unless your license priviliges match the flight conditions and the class of airspace.
So to sum up IFR has everything to do with the weather because you must be IFR in IMC. You can elect (state of mind) to be either IFR or VFR in VMC.
There, do you feel better now?
I know, I know the old chestnut but I have a feeling you and I got to grips with it a long time ago and we dont need to score points on this one.
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Joined: Feb 2009
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From: Sheffield
Fuji, your 4th point made the biggest impact for me, considering the flying i do.
I'm acouple hours away from completing my IMCr and was basically running through some hypothetical flights in my head when my original question arose.
Thanks all for the prompt concise replies
I'm acouple hours away from completing my IMCr and was basically running through some hypothetical flights in my head when my original question arose.
Thanks all for the prompt concise replies
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,631
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From: UK
KingCooky
Thank you. I tried to keep it concise and to the point.
You will find the Europeans are quite strict on this stuff, although of course they use the semi circular rule. They expect you to fly at the corect level when you are VFR, although they have a different concept of IFR to us.
In reality if you are OCAS in the UK frankly no one much cares whether you are IFR or VFR and in VMC or IMC. Some would argue you create a greater danger by complying with the quadrantal because if you think about it, it confines all the traffic to the same levels. This means if any one is flying at the wrong level (because they have stupidly misinterpreted the rule) you have a far greater chance of a collision. For this reason some would say that the airspace users would be better relying on the big sky theory to keep them safe and fly at all sorts of different levels. Moreover in my experience on IFR days there are plenty of pilots not complying with the quadrantal rule for reasons best known to themselves but I would guess including because they are not aware the rule applies to them.
Thank you. I tried to keep it concise and to the point.
You will find the Europeans are quite strict on this stuff, although of course they use the semi circular rule. They expect you to fly at the corect level when you are VFR, although they have a different concept of IFR to us.
In reality if you are OCAS in the UK frankly no one much cares whether you are IFR or VFR and in VMC or IMC. Some would argue you create a greater danger by complying with the quadrantal because if you think about it, it confines all the traffic to the same levels. This means if any one is flying at the wrong level (because they have stupidly misinterpreted the rule) you have a far greater chance of a collision. For this reason some would say that the airspace users would be better relying on the big sky theory to keep them safe and fly at all sorts of different levels. Moreover in my experience on IFR days there are plenty of pilots not complying with the quadrantal rule for reasons best known to themselves but I would guess including because they are not aware the rule applies to them.
