Ergonomics of a Cessna 152
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Ergonomics of a Cessna 152
Hi, complete newbie here. Started on the path of a being a pilot a couple of weeks ago. I've had a few of lessons up in a Cessna 152 and I've ended up a slightly stiff and sore left shoulder afterwards. Is it just me gripping too tight or are there ergonomic issue in the 152?
My shoulders are fairly wide and it was getting quite cosy with the instructor in there with me.
My shoulders are fairly wide and it was getting quite cosy with the instructor in there with me.
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Hi ronniehuang
I'm learning in a 152 and although I'm quite tall I still manage to fit in (just!). I think I'm at the limit and in hindsight I wish I started in a PA28 which has loads more room than a 152. I'm almost at the end of my PPL training so I've just carried on. When I pass I'm going to swap over to a PA28 simply because of the extra room. I'm not sure about the cessna 172 in terms of being much bigger but I would imagine it won't be far off a PA28.
For me it was just that I had no choice at the time as my school only had 152s. I would suggest having a sit in a PA28 or 172 to compare although they are typically a little bit more expensive per hour. In terms of ergonomics its not too bad but some of the primary instruments are placed seemingly all over the place in a 152. PA28 layout is much better.
I'm learning in a 152 and although I'm quite tall I still manage to fit in (just!). I think I'm at the limit and in hindsight I wish I started in a PA28 which has loads more room than a 152. I'm almost at the end of my PPL training so I've just carried on. When I pass I'm going to swap over to a PA28 simply because of the extra room. I'm not sure about the cessna 172 in terms of being much bigger but I would imagine it won't be far off a PA28.
For me it was just that I had no choice at the time as my school only had 152s. I would suggest having a sit in a PA28 or 172 to compare although they are typically a little bit more expensive per hour. In terms of ergonomics its not too bad but some of the primary instruments are placed seemingly all over the place in a 152. PA28 layout is much better.
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Unless you are very fat or very rich I would suggest you continue with the 152. I really don't agree that the layout of a PA28 is more logical. Being tall is actually an advantage in a 152. I have to use a cushion. The space is narrow, however. A good idea is to remove your jacket and put any large items in your pocket in your bag.
I also find the rudder pedals clunky in a PA28 and the rudder far less effective (this might depend on model)
I also find the rudder pedals clunky in a PA28 and the rudder far less effective (this might depend on model)
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I think I might stay on the 152 for a few more lessons. I'm not that tall (5'7"), I just have broad shoulders 
. I am overweight (almost 190lb) and I have been flying with a reasonably thick jacket on. I will definately remember to take the jacket off next time I fly. I'll just put on a nice woollen thermal top instead. That should keep me warm enough. 
. I am overweight (almost 190lb) and I have been flying with a reasonably thick jacket on. I will definately remember to take the jacket off next time I fly. I'll just put on a nice woollen thermal top instead. That should keep me warm enough.
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I'll just put on a nice woollen thermal top instead. That should keep me warm enough. 
) so there could be your answer.
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I fly a old model 150(the ones without the bended doors, 2" less cabin width) and being 1.88 m have little problems.
You can try to set the seats/ back rests uneven for a bit more shoulder room.
-Kees.
You can try to set the seats/ back rests uneven for a bit more shoulder room.
-Kees.
Having an instructor with whom you are comfortable cuddling up is a good idea
Beer o'clock is my excuse......
.
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I don't cuddle on a first date. 
Useful to know. If I ever 'make it' in the industry I might finally be able to get back to a normal weight.
As for my instructor, I would call him wiry rather than cuddly. And besides I don't swing that way.
As for my aches and pains, now that I think about it, I *might* be unconsiously trying to give the instructor more space. Aren't I considerate?
If the instructor is cuddly he/she is able to afford to eat so is obviously being paid above the industry standard.
If I ever 'make it' in the industry I might finally be able to get back to a normal weight. As for my instructor, I would call him wiry rather than cuddly. And besides I don't swing that way.
As for my aches and pains, now that I think about it, I *might* be unconsiously trying to give the instructor more space. Aren't I considerate?
5ft 6" and 190lb; I'm 5ft 6" and 180lb with broad shoulders so shouldn't be far off your build.
I've been trained in the past in cockpit ergonomic assessment, and also have about 80 hours in Cessna singles - most of that in C150s and C152s. Whilst it's a little cramped, I actually think it's ergonomically pretty good, and slightly better than the PA28, although the PA28 does have a bit more shoulder and headroom.
Neck, back and shoulder pain are a classic symptom of stress, and you are doing something which is quite new to you. Also most new pilots struggle with the fact that you should only grip aircraft controls very lightly. So, my instinct is to believe that you are most likely suffering from a degree of self-induced skeleto-muscular pain, which will get better as you learn to overlap shoulders with your instructor slightly, and to relax much more about the flying - which let's face it, is a pretty alien environment at first.
It is usually best to dress to be slightly cool in the cockpit - being over warm tends to promote airsickness, as well as bulking you out a bit unnecessarily - you'll find that most (real) flying jackets are deliberately quite thin.
G
I've been trained in the past in cockpit ergonomic assessment, and also have about 80 hours in Cessna singles - most of that in C150s and C152s. Whilst it's a little cramped, I actually think it's ergonomically pretty good, and slightly better than the PA28, although the PA28 does have a bit more shoulder and headroom.
Neck, back and shoulder pain are a classic symptom of stress, and you are doing something which is quite new to you. Also most new pilots struggle with the fact that you should only grip aircraft controls very lightly. So, my instinct is to believe that you are most likely suffering from a degree of self-induced skeleto-muscular pain, which will get better as you learn to overlap shoulders with your instructor slightly, and to relax much more about the flying - which let's face it, is a pretty alien environment at first.
It is usually best to dress to be slightly cool in the cockpit - being over warm tends to promote airsickness, as well as bulking you out a bit unnecessarily - you'll find that most (real) flying jackets are deliberately quite thin.
G
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A better alternative to the 152 than the PA28 is the PA38 Tomahawk. This is a two seater with much more room than a 152. It was designed from suggestions by flight instructors! Sadly not many clubs in the UK have them.
Very true, I have a soft spot for the PA38 - excellent ergonomics and view, and underpowered plus safe but slightly exciting stall characteristics in a way that teaches some good flying habits.
G
If you are 'avoiding' bumping shoulders with your instructor, then don't be so considerate. I'm sure he's had bigger guys. Just relax, and if your shoulders touch, then so be it.
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If you want an a/c to give you flying confidence, the PA28 is great. I'm not particularly tall or wide, but I always find C152s feel rather cramped. If you're nervous, you probably don't like being pushed against the door either!
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I'm 6"2 and around 220lbs, found 1 cessna 150 slightly cramped and another a bit more roomy as the seats seemed lower?
Have you had the door come open on take off yet? That's always interesting the first few times! You'll get used to it and relax also!
Have you had the door come open on take off yet? That's always interesting the first few times! You'll get used to it and relax also!
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Mutual breathing can help.
When your instructor breathes out - you breathe in. Simples, shoulders not in conflict.
Also, from time to time just let go of the yoke and flex the fingers. It's a Tai Chi trick and really worked for me. (40 years ago)
SGC
When your instructor breathes out - you breathe in. Simples, shoulders not in conflict.
Also, from time to time just let go of the yoke and flex the fingers. It's a Tai Chi trick and really worked for me. (40 years ago)
SGC
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In my professional opinion as an FI and pilot, Cessna 150/152's are smelly cramped heaps of poo and if I never have to instruct in them again I will be more than happy.
Go and find yourself a school with a tramahawk aka PA38 not only will you be more comfy learning but it will also teach you to fly better due to it having none of the nasty's designed out of it.
You will now get a heap of posts saying how horrible and dangerous PA38's are.
A PA38 with a none talent limited instructor who enjoys teaching in them, you can't get much better in main stream two seat training aircraft. You can get better in the likes of bulldogs etc but for standard school training aircraft its the best of a bad lot these days.
Go and find yourself a school with a tramahawk aka PA38 not only will you be more comfy learning but it will also teach you to fly better due to it having none of the nasty's designed out of it.
You will now get a heap of posts saying how horrible and dangerous PA38's are.
A PA38 with a none talent limited instructor who enjoys teaching in them, you can't get much better in main stream two seat training aircraft. You can get better in the likes of bulldogs etc but for standard school training aircraft its the best of a bad lot these days.
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The Tomahawk is a good plane, despite a few quirks - mainly the T-tail that was not originally supposed to be on the plane. I did all of my PPL in one and would be happy to fly one again.
Ryan
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I get a stiff left arm from the 152. I think it's because the ailerons on the three at my school are adjusted for "the larger instructor", so I have to keep a bit of upward force on the yoke with my left hand all the time. I eventually found places to brace my left elbow during my solo xc 
Funnily enough, I finished my PPL a couple of months ago and couldn't wait to leap into a PA28 - they just look better, and yes, you can both breathe in at the same time! But I surprised myself - after three or four flights in the PA28 I got back in a 152 and found I'd missed it, particularly that lovely vague "don't worry, I know you didn't really mean to press the left rudder pedal that hard, I'll just keep going this way shall I?" steering mechanism!
Funnily enough, I finished my PPL a couple of months ago and couldn't wait to leap into a PA28 - they just look better, and yes, you can both breathe in at the same time! But I surprised myself - after three or four flights in the PA28 I got back in a 152 and found I'd missed it, particularly that lovely vague "don't worry, I know you didn't really mean to press the left rudder pedal that hard, I'll just keep going this way shall I?" steering mechanism!
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You will now get a heap of posts saying how horrible and dangerous PA38's are.
I'm fortunate to have access to a 172 and PA28 though I am more than content with a C150/152 any day. (My 'professional' opinion as a pilot)