NPPL vs PPL advice please
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norfolk UK
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I really am getting fed up with those who think it is pointless to actually just go up and fly for the pure pleasure of it.
That is exactly why I learned to fly,just to fly,get it?
If I want to go to Paris,Madrid or Milan,?
Ryanair and a gin and tonic.
Not piss**g around with lots of planning,costing loads of dosh ,just to post on here that I've done it.
That is exactly why I learned to fly,just to fly,get it?
If I want to go to Paris,Madrid or Milan,?
Ryanair and a gin and tonic.
Not piss**g around with lots of planning,costing loads of dosh ,just to post on here that I've done it.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Banished (twice) to the pointless forest
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Why I fly
Lister, You've hit the nail on the head. There must be loads of us old guys who just want to fly because we can. I normally land at the airfield I took off from, even if only because that's where my car is, and I need it to get back home.
There's loads of fun in flying, even under the "restrictions" of an NPPL. I can see that the youngsters who want to carve out a career in aviation may want to get more out of a couple of hours in the sky, but I am happy just to visit friends or fly over my house and the house of my passengers for the day.
I suspect that the people who give up after a few years should probably not have taken it up in the first place, but they were not to know that until they had experienced it.
There's loads of fun in flying, even under the "restrictions" of an NPPL. I can see that the youngsters who want to carve out a career in aviation may want to get more out of a couple of hours in the sky, but I am happy just to visit friends or fly over my house and the house of my passengers for the day.
I suspect that the people who give up after a few years should probably not have taken it up in the first place, but they were not to know that until they had experienced it.
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
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I really am getting fed up with those who think it is pointless to actually just go up and fly for the pure pleasure of it.
That is exactly why I learned to fly,just to fly,get it?
If I want to go to Paris,Madrid or Milan,?
Ryanair and a gin and tonic.
Not piss**g around with lots of planning,costing loads of dosh ,just to post on here that I've done it.
That is exactly why I learned to fly,just to fly,get it?
If I want to go to Paris,Madrid or Milan,?
Ryanair and a gin and tonic.
Not piss**g around with lots of planning,costing loads of dosh ,just to post on here that I've done it.
Let's look at it more practically.
Let's say you want to fly from say Goodwood to say Welshpool. That route is, as far as I can tell, wholly within the UK so should meet the non-aspirational requirement.
What exact difference in skills which need to be learnt to fly that route safely and confidently will be involved if the pilot does
- a PPL
- an NPPL
?
Join Date: Sep 2007
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OK. No point in encouraging anybody to be aspirational. It would be very un-British to do so, after all. Let's forget about flying abroad - nobody wants to do that.
And my club statistics agree with you - no-one want to fly abroad. Around 120 pilots fly with us, so it's not a bad sample.
I switched to an NPPL when I could because the medical was a significant part of the hourly rate that I paid, and because I'd flown abroad a few times, and Europe is Europe however you get there. So I dropped that privilege and keep the one that allows me to get into the air and fly. If I lived further from London I'd switch to microlight and save more money, but parking around here costs a fortune.
B
Let's say you want to fly from say Goodwood to say Welshpool.
Lots of delta-bravo landmarks, simple enough route. Easily do-able by the holder of an NPPL or a JAR-FCL PPL.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cotswolds UK
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NPPL and proud!
Hi folks,
Just to add my 10 pence worth on a few issues discussed here...
Firstly - the comment that it was created by the training industry to tick boxes:
Well - as someone who'd been told all his life he'd never get a licence because of one weak eye the NPPL has enabled me (and, I'm sure, many others) to achieve a life long dream that was once a closed off realm. If I ever meet the person who came up with the idea I owe them copious amounts of beer!
So decision on which licence was an easy one for me!
Secondly - training:
Solo Nav - there does seem to be confusion here.
My instructor and CFIs interpretation of the rules (bearing in mind they hadn't done the NPPL syllabus with a student up until that point) was that I had to do an air test with CFI prior to any solo nav exercises (not just qualifying x-country).
I did this last December and it was a great experience. IMHO doing the Nav part of the skills test at that point actually makes a lot more sense than doing it at the end. And that test was the same as the Nav test for the JAR PPL.
Partly because I requested it - all of my testing/training was done to JAR PPL Standard (it appears to be pretty well the same anyway) - so included radio nav aids, instrument appreciation, etc..
We did try to do the full 150 nm JAR X-Country Qualifier - but ended up doing a slightly shorter route of about 130 nm due to availabilities/met on the day.
Apart from that - did the same as the JAR PPL and qualled after about 50 hours (although I did have a gap of nearly a year from first training to picking it up again - the money ran dry syndrome).
So qualled end April and happily scooting around since - with first pax flown (I think I'm still smiling from the first one!)
As to limits to UK airspace - suits me fine for now. Should be converted onto Warrior this week - then taildragger training on clubs Citabria. I have an eye on doing an aerobatics course after that. But I am looking forward in anticipation to this new European Sport Pilot licence and the possibilities that might bring.
Yes - I'd love to fly overseas at some point - but it's not the end of the world if I can't...
For me - the privileges my shiny new NPPL has given me are priceless...
Just to add my 10 pence worth on a few issues discussed here...
Firstly - the comment that it was created by the training industry to tick boxes:
Well - as someone who'd been told all his life he'd never get a licence because of one weak eye the NPPL has enabled me (and, I'm sure, many others) to achieve a life long dream that was once a closed off realm. If I ever meet the person who came up with the idea I owe them copious amounts of beer!
So decision on which licence was an easy one for me!
Secondly - training:
Solo Nav - there does seem to be confusion here.
My instructor and CFIs interpretation of the rules (bearing in mind they hadn't done the NPPL syllabus with a student up until that point) was that I had to do an air test with CFI prior to any solo nav exercises (not just qualifying x-country).
I did this last December and it was a great experience. IMHO doing the Nav part of the skills test at that point actually makes a lot more sense than doing it at the end. And that test was the same as the Nav test for the JAR PPL.
Partly because I requested it - all of my testing/training was done to JAR PPL Standard (it appears to be pretty well the same anyway) - so included radio nav aids, instrument appreciation, etc..
We did try to do the full 150 nm JAR X-Country Qualifier - but ended up doing a slightly shorter route of about 130 nm due to availabilities/met on the day.
Apart from that - did the same as the JAR PPL and qualled after about 50 hours (although I did have a gap of nearly a year from first training to picking it up again - the money ran dry syndrome).
So qualled end April and happily scooting around since - with first pax flown (I think I'm still smiling from the first one!)
As to limits to UK airspace - suits me fine for now. Should be converted onto Warrior this week - then taildragger training on clubs Citabria. I have an eye on doing an aerobatics course after that. But I am looking forward in anticipation to this new European Sport Pilot licence and the possibilities that might bring.
Yes - I'd love to fly overseas at some point - but it's not the end of the world if I can't...
For me - the privileges my shiny new NPPL has given me are priceless...
My instructor and CFIs interpretation of the rules (bearing in mind they hadn't done the NPPL syllabus with a student up until that point) was that I had to do an air test with CFI prior to any solo nav exercises (not just qualifying x-country).
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Hi BEagle,
I did say 'interpretation'...
Suited me fine though as it helped hugely with confidence the first time I did venture off out of the circuit on my own!
I did say 'interpretation'...
Suited me fine though as it helped hugely with confidence the first time I did venture off out of the circuit on my own!
Also, not being near a marked gliding site doesn't mean no gliders. If it's a good day there will almost certainly be be gliders flying XC.
So, there are potentially gliders to look out for all over the place, not just after Petersfield.
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For me it's not any lack of aspiration, it's just that flying long distances over fields and houses at 10,000 ft isn't where my aspirations lie. Just a personal thing, you understand.
When I sit at FL100-FL190 it is perhaps over the Alps, taking pics of the mountains. That's pretty good.
Long distance IFR above a solid overcast is totally boring, and most flight over N France is totally boring.
And my club statistics agree with you - no-one want to fly abroad. Around 120 pilots fly with us, so it's not a bad sample.
It does cost more money to do the more interesting stuff; I would not deny that. I am fortunate I can afford it. But to put this in perspective, my two sons have just left private schooling and I could do 3x more flying now that I do already, on the money saved.
What I think is wrong is assuming that everybody posting on here is skint, and advising them on thas basis as a default. Some are, some are not. I am in touch with many many pilots and while some are skint, many are not, but even those who are not generally find it hard to do interesting stuff because their training was too basic for it. The whole business is geared up for the lowest common denominator...
It is difficult because most people enquiring post one-liners, more or less, and everybody jumps in trying to guess what the man wants to do / is able to afford. That's why my first question tends to be "what is your budget"?
That's why my first question tends to be "what is your budget"?
As to your Goodwood to Welshpool question I fail to see your point, I don't believe anyone has suggested that there is a difference in skill level.
To suggest that people who do not wish to fly abroad lack aspiration or money is thoroughly ridiculous. I don't know when the day will come when you will realise that different people want different things from their lives and from their flying. The reason that we are not all IO540 is not because we can't afford it but because we do not want to be. Now I don't give a badger's bum what you want to do but please stop berating those who want different things out of life - they are not wrong they are merely different - thank God.
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What I think is wrong is assuming that everybody posting on here is skint...
Join Date: Sep 2005
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I've owned and sailed reasonable sized boats=lots of fun,travelled a lot and quite expensive
I've owned and raced single seater,historic and vintage cars=lots of fun but horrendously expensive
I own 1/14th of a 1942 L4 Cub=lots of fun and the cheapest by far of the three pastimes.
We pay £35 per hour all in,including fuel,hangarage,insurance and all maintenance,it can't get much cheaper than that.
We meet once a year to see how the accounts are,some years we all chip in another £2-300,some years nothing,and we have a very healthy replacement engine fund.
Yes,I know we are fortunate,but it shows that you can have affordable flying,in our case in a really nice historic aircraft.
There are lots of groups around or you can form one.
The most important thing is to have really nice trustworthy people in the group
Out of the 14 members,around 6 of us fly regularly,we have internet booking and as far as I can see it's nearly always available when I want to fly,but being semi retired I can chose when to do that.
If you want shiny toys with glass cockpits then that's another thing.
Lister
I've owned and raced single seater,historic and vintage cars=lots of fun but horrendously expensive
I own 1/14th of a 1942 L4 Cub=lots of fun and the cheapest by far of the three pastimes.
We pay £35 per hour all in,including fuel,hangarage,insurance and all maintenance,it can't get much cheaper than that.
We meet once a year to see how the accounts are,some years we all chip in another £2-300,some years nothing,and we have a very healthy replacement engine fund.
Yes,I know we are fortunate,but it shows that you can have affordable flying,in our case in a really nice historic aircraft.
There are lots of groups around or you can form one.
The most important thing is to have really nice trustworthy people in the group
Out of the 14 members,around 6 of us fly regularly,we have internet booking and as far as I can see it's nearly always available when I want to fly,but being semi retired I can chose when to do that.
If you want shiny toys with glass cockpits then that's another thing.
Lister
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You're so right, there are other expensive hobbies that can leave a deeper hole in your pocket.
Wow. 35 an hour all-in. Yes, we have been victims of wanting speed, range, altitude, payload (for which we are paying ourselves) and LOCATION... if you're not so picky pure basic flying fun need not be expensive or require overkill licensing.
Nazgul "Be Careful What You Wish For" Airlines
Wow. 35 an hour all-in. Yes, we have been victims of wanting speed, range, altitude, payload (for which we are paying ourselves) and LOCATION... if you're not so picky pure basic flying fun need not be expensive or require overkill licensing.
Nazgul "Be Careful What You Wish For" Airlines
