PA28 through Stansted
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PA28 through Stansted
Well, i don't care what they say about stansted radar, they gave me and my little archer clearence today from Earls Colne to Panshanger.
A beautiful site watching a departing Buzz 146 and then a Go 737 climb and turn above me.
Thanks guys, especially as i was running late
Wobbers
A beautiful site watching a departing Buzz 146 and then a Go 737 climb and turn above me.
Thanks guys, especially as i was running late
Wobbers
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That may be strange here, but go to Florida, and it's the norm. I flew a Warrior into Jacksonville Intl, Tampa Intl, Daytona Intl and Orlando Sanford Intl. You are surrounded by airliners, follow then down the approach, land and clear the runway to have another one land afteryou. At Jacksonville, I was told "follow the aircraft ahead, down to the runway, beware of wake turbulence, remember it's a 767".
Oh, I almost forgot, No prior permission and No landing fees. Oh, and of course the free corporate hostpitality when you get there.
ickle
Oh, I almost forgot, No prior permission and No landing fees. Oh, and of course the free corporate hostpitality when you get there.
ickle
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As some one mentioned before in the US it is pretty easy to do things like that. I have never been to FL so I do not know how large those airports that ickle black box mentioned however I flew a 172 into LAX 4 times VFR, with no problem. The longest wait was about 5 minutes which seems pretty reasonable! But they always seem to forget you not once but twice when you tried to get your clearance, I think they had to get the manual out, and remember how to give a VFR clearance!
Iain
Iain
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A couple of years ago whilst on a business trip in California, I hired a 172 (with instructor, as it was my first flight and therefore a check) from Palo Alto and did the "Bay Tour" around San Francisco.
Flew it up the Pacific Coast, over the Golden Gate and Alcatraz and then across
the middle of the 4 runways at San Fran Int'l
with heavies arriving and departing beneath.
All this at 2500' VFR.
Overall a fab experience and 1.5hrs cost me about 80 USD if I remember!!
Flew it up the Pacific Coast, over the Golden Gate and Alcatraz and then across
the middle of the 4 runways at San Fran Int'l
with heavies arriving and departing beneath.
All this at 2500' VFR.
Overall a fab experience and 1.5hrs cost me about 80 USD if I remember!!
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Flew from Shoreham to Stapleford on Saturday in a PA28. Went over the Dome West of City Airport.
I didn't have time to do a single orbit north of Biggin before Thames Radar gave me the 'OK'.
I assumed the worst but was pleasantly surprised, thanks Gents.
I didn't have time to do a single orbit north of Biggin before Thames Radar gave me the 'OK'.
I assumed the worst but was pleasantly surprised, thanks Gents.
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str12: But wot about glide clear? Thar's an awful lot of houses below the route you mention.
In general, if you ask for a clearance, and the route would bust an air law, would you expect the controller to say "no, you can't, don't be silly"?
It is of course the a/c commander who's responsible for everything, I just wonder if a controller would query the legality of a transit in a single.
Steve R
In general, if you ask for a clearance, and the route would bust an air law, would you expect the controller to say "no, you can't, don't be silly"?
It is of course the a/c commander who's responsible for everything, I just wonder if a controller would query the legality of a transit in a single.
Steve R
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It doesn't only happen in the US. Departing from Chateauroux in a DR400 a couple of years ago, we were wondering how we and the accompanying Rallye could find room to get away between the Air France A320 and BA 777 who were flying circuits. No sooner had one's wake turbulence cleared, than the other was on short final.
As we approached the holding point, the controller solved the problem for us: "Speedbird, extend downwind, I have two light aircraft to depart ahead of you."
Problem solved. How civilised.
Rattus
Edited for tripeing
[This message has been edited by Rattus (edited 24 April 2001).]
As we approached the holding point, the controller solved the problem for us: "Speedbird, extend downwind, I have two light aircraft to depart ahead of you."
Problem solved. How civilised.
Rattus
Edited for tripeing
[This message has been edited by Rattus (edited 24 April 2001).]
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I transit the City zone via the Dome on a regular basis and it seems to be a fairly well used route. From the south I usually route via tonbridge to stay clear of Biggin and it seems to be fairly uncluttered on the ground. To the north, normal routing is up the Lea Valley lakes which gives options (although wet ones) if the donkey quits. It's a great route to fly on a clear night with Canary Warf sparkling away. Heathrow Radar are good for SVFR clearances through the East of their zone via Burnham and Ascot as well.
-S
-S
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Str12. I can't believe you will willingly put yourselves in that situation. And Suction you flying a single or a twin?
If the worst did happen and your engine cut although there might be some very small places to land in I'm sure the CAA will be knocking on your door asking why you were flying there in the first place given the glide clear rule.
I don't want to spoil anyone's fun but every GA accident that is reported by the press seems to make things worse. Lets try and avoid wiping out the populus of the lee valley.
[This message has been edited by wobblyprop (edited 25 April 2001).]
If the worst did happen and your engine cut although there might be some very small places to land in I'm sure the CAA will be knocking on your door asking why you were flying there in the first place given the glide clear rule.
I don't want to spoil anyone's fun but every GA accident that is reported by the press seems to make things worse. Lets try and avoid wiping out the populus of the lee valley.
[This message has been edited by wobblyprop (edited 25 April 2001).]
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I totally agree, I shouldn't have gone that route. It was my instructor's suggestion and I didn't think to question it (and I passed Human Factors with flying colours).
We went Biggin - City - Stapleford, I had planned these as alternates should the spinny-thing on the front stop spinning.
There were a few (short-ish) periods when a glide wouldn't have got me to any of those, this was bad planning and I have learnt my lesson.
Cheers
We went Biggin - City - Stapleford, I had planned these as alternates should the spinny-thing on the front stop spinning.
There were a few (short-ish) periods when a glide wouldn't have got me to any of those, this was bad planning and I have learnt my lesson.
Cheers
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It always surprises me how many singles pass over my house on the Biggin - City - Lea Valley route, usually at weekends when the City CTR is closed (and therefore class G). There's no way that they could land clear in case of engine failure. The whole area counts as congested from the southern fringes of Bromley right up to the northern Lea Valley reservoirs, the CAA have made this clear in AIC's. They should do a little rule enforcement in this area.
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I think it's one of those areas which is somewhat grey with regards to 'alighting clear'.
If you allow a (conservative) 1 mile per 500 ft glide ratio, then crossing at 2400 feet will give you almost 5 miles in nil wind. This will get you into LCY or the Lea Valley reservoirs if you choose your route carefully.
The point is, what does alight clear really mean? Is it sufficient to pitch into the reservoir or must it be completely clear of all built up areas (i.e. Essex).
I know we could talk about it all day, and most people don't want the boat rocking..
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"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"
If you allow a (conservative) 1 mile per 500 ft glide ratio, then crossing at 2400 feet will give you almost 5 miles in nil wind. This will get you into LCY or the Lea Valley reservoirs if you choose your route carefully.
The point is, what does alight clear really mean? Is it sufficient to pitch into the reservoir or must it be completely clear of all built up areas (i.e. Essex).
I know we could talk about it all day, and most people don't want the boat rocking..
------------------
"Take-off is optional, Landing is mandatory"
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Wobblyprop - guilty as charged - a single
I appreciate the thoughts and feedback provided by all contributors - a reminder that I too should not forget the importance of questioning others (such was my introduction to this route). When an element of doubt exists - self questioning is required - so I think I'll work on an alternative routing in future.
Thanks All
-S
I appreciate the thoughts and feedback provided by all contributors - a reminder that I too should not forget the importance of questioning others (such was my introduction to this route). When an element of doubt exists - self questioning is required - so I think I'll work on an alternative routing in future.
Thanks All
-S
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Hmm, I wasn't very impressed 25 mins ago when a light a/c of French pilotage penetrated EGSS zone whilst I was positioning for a supposed radar vectored approach due to the ILS being out of service. Said infringement meant that I ATC were totally absorbed whilst I approached until 3 miles before clearance to go to tower.
Not a big incident but the potential was there is the weather had been worse and a few more links in the chain had come to pass.
Just a view from the other perspective...
WWW
Not a big incident but the potential was there is the weather had been worse and a few more links in the chain had come to pass.
Just a view from the other perspective...
WWW
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WWW,
Unfortunate "incident", not quite sure what your angle on it is though?
I'm worried that there's a hint of "keep, or make sure, little aeroplanes stay out of big aeroplanes airspace".
Please accept my apologies if I'm wrong, and I hope I am, but that's what I read into it.
Unfortunately airspace incursions, just like level busts by the pro's, are a fact of life. Despite everything that is done to mitigate against either, we're human and they happen.
IMHO, attempting to ban light aircraft from CAS is not the answer, being more pro-active as an ATC service provider is.
WF.
Unfortunate "incident", not quite sure what your angle on it is though?
I'm worried that there's a hint of "keep, or make sure, little aeroplanes stay out of big aeroplanes airspace".
Please accept my apologies if I'm wrong, and I hope I am, but that's what I read into it.
Unfortunately airspace incursions, just like level busts by the pro's, are a fact of life. Despite everything that is done to mitigate against either, we're human and they happen.
IMHO, attempting to ban light aircraft from CAS is not the answer, being more pro-active as an ATC service provider is.
WF.