IFR in the UK
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IFR in the UK
Hi,
I am a little confused about something with IFR flying in the UK and hope someone can help me out! If the cloud base is 800ft or something around that area at a field like eshott. And i want to fly IFR to say shoreham how do i file a flight plan if the airfield is unlicenced and who do i file with?
Sorry if this is very basic stuff just i did all my IFR training flying from controlled to controlled completing full SID and STAR procedures so never came up against this!
Thanks in advance
MAX
I am a little confused about something with IFR flying in the UK and hope someone can help me out! If the cloud base is 800ft or something around that area at a field like eshott. And i want to fly IFR to say shoreham how do i file a flight plan if the airfield is unlicenced and who do i file with?
Sorry if this is very basic stuff just i did all my IFR training flying from controlled to controlled completing full SID and STAR procedures so never came up against this!
Thanks in advance
MAX
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I think it's best to use the NATS AFPEx microsite http://www.flightplanningonline.co.uk/ and file on-line before you leave home. You'll then need to activate your flight plan once airborne, perhaps with London Info.
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I was wondering about that - is there an accepted radio message to activate a flight plan once in the air? Do you just give your call-sign and they can find it on the system?
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Have I missed something?
Are you wanting to file a flight plan for some particular reason or are you intending to route airways?
If you arrange your flight entirely outside class A you have no need to file a flight plan and will gain no advantage from doing so.
The only other time you would of course need to file is if the flight originated outside the UK in which case a FP is mandatory VFR or IFR.
Some might argue if your flight is in the UK and over "hostile" terrain or the sea it is worth filing to aid search and recovery others would disagree.
Are you wanting to file a flight plan for some particular reason or are you intending to route airways?
If you arrange your flight entirely outside class A you have no need to file a flight plan and will gain no advantage from doing so.
The only other time you would of course need to file is if the flight originated outside the UK in which case a FP is mandatory VFR or IFR.
Some might argue if your flight is in the UK and over "hostile" terrain or the sea it is worth filing to aid search and recovery others would disagree.
If you're intending to route airways, I would suggest you phone Prestwick Centre before you start just to pre-warn them and to get transponder code and frequency to call for joining clearance. Your flight plan will then be automatically activated when the squawk is detected by the radar processing system.
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The only other time you would of course need to file is if the flight originated outside the UK in which case a FP is mandatory VFR or IFR.
A flight plan is required on any flight to or from the United Kingdom which will cross the United Kingdom FIR boundary.
But make sure you know where the UK is too!!!!
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File it all IFR if the cloudbase is that low (if you are in a single, give yourself a few extra hundred feet if you can. If that doink fails or you loose a mag, you'll be glad you did).
In the flight plan, if you don't actually join CAS, you can get a Traffic service or higher (Deconfliction) from London. If you do, your first point on the FPL will be you CAS joining point. Do not get there without getting CAS joining permission - they will tell you.
You first call could reqest CAS join at XXX FL XX, IFR flight plan activation and a DCS outside CAS.
If you are remaining clear of CAS, a FPL would allow you to become expected and cut out RT chatter, but as mentioned, not required but is safer incase you need help or need to become visual at some point - or don't and have to hold / divert.
If you are planning to cloudbreak into a small field, use a procedure that gives you safety and ideally have at least a traffic service (ie - pick up a radial off of a VOR and descend to MSA). You could shoot an ILS into an airfield appraoch aids and break off VFR to land at you destination.
In the flight plan, if you don't actually join CAS, you can get a Traffic service or higher (Deconfliction) from London. If you do, your first point on the FPL will be you CAS joining point. Do not get there without getting CAS joining permission - they will tell you.
You first call could reqest CAS join at XXX FL XX, IFR flight plan activation and a DCS outside CAS.
If you are remaining clear of CAS, a FPL would allow you to become expected and cut out RT chatter, but as mentioned, not required but is safer incase you need help or need to become visual at some point - or don't and have to hold / divert.
If you are planning to cloudbreak into a small field, use a procedure that gives you safety and ideally have at least a traffic service (ie - pick up a radial off of a VOR and descend to MSA). You could shoot an ILS into an airfield appraoch aids and break off VFR to land at you destination.
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Which "London" service provides traffic or deconfliction? (presumably "Control" and not "Information") even though "Information" seems to frequently be used to actvate FPLs
I would be happier with a decent quality moving map GPS with terrain info rather than messing about with VOR radials
I would be happier with a decent quality moving map GPS with terrain info rather than messing about with VOR radials
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118.825 is the sector Clippy (Milton Keynes) to BPK.
Have a look in the En-Route section of the AIP.
Thames Radar 132:700 would help you too.
London Info isn't going to help too much. They have a massive area to cover and won't give you a radar service.
Ring your local airfield that would handles IFR traffic and ask them. Cambridge, for example, would give you a climb to the base of CAS and track to BKY. Essex Radar then take you and cive you a further climb and headings / own nav to join CAS.
If you were departing from a non-IFR airfield, you would have to self position to the CAS joining point under a traffic / deconf service from your local LARS proivider. Farnborough now have a good service. Look up the local chart in the Jeps or via NATS
NATS | AIS - Home
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2010-06-03.pdf
Have a look in the En-Route section of the AIP.
Thames Radar 132:700 would help you too.
London Info isn't going to help too much. They have a massive area to cover and won't give you a radar service.
Ring your local airfield that would handles IFR traffic and ask them. Cambridge, for example, would give you a climb to the base of CAS and track to BKY. Essex Radar then take you and cive you a further climb and headings / own nav to join CAS.
If you were departing from a non-IFR airfield, you would have to self position to the CAS joining point under a traffic / deconf service from your local LARS proivider. Farnborough now have a good service. Look up the local chart in the Jeps or via NATS
NATS | AIS - Home
http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2010-06-03.pdf
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AIP ENR 1.10 section 1.7 describes how to submit your FPL.
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So you don't need to file if flying outside class A, but what about through class D? I've flown a couple routes mostly outside class A but have filed a flight plan all the same. Problem with that is that I've had to freecall every en route frequency, increasing workload except where the guys on the ground have provided a handover out of courtesy. Would it be sensible to file a flight plan with all the en route ATS units even when staying outside class A?
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h
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Spot on.
You don't have to, but to give everyone an easy day, it is best to. The last thing a busy controller wants to sequence at the last minute is you while you are submitting all of the info on a FPL over the radio. This is asking for a loss of control accident too from your end - unless you have a gucci autopilot.
The flight plan cuts out handover phone calls to the next sector by the controller. They all get a printed strip (you hope - not always) and all they do is press a button, say that G-XXXX is FL 80 tracking to XXX for a Zone transit of XXX. They then hand you to the next freq. Job done.
You don't have to, but to give everyone an easy day, it is best to. The last thing a busy controller wants to sequence at the last minute is you while you are submitting all of the info on a FPL over the radio. This is asking for a loss of control accident too from your end - unless you have a gucci autopilot.
The flight plan cuts out handover phone calls to the next sector by the controller. They all get a printed strip (you hope - not always) and all they do is press a button, say that G-XXXX is FL 80 tracking to XXX for a Zone transit of XXX. They then hand you to the next freq. Job done.
The flight plan cuts out handover phone calls to the next sector by the controller. They all get a printed strip (you hope - not always) and all they do is press a button, say that G-XXXX is FL 80 tracking to XXX for a Zone transit of XXX. They then hand you to the next freq. Job done.
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1. As far as I am aware Shoreham is not PPR,
2. As far as I am aware Shoreham will always give you an approach service if you arrive IMC within published hours and conditions are "prorperly" IMC - but if you pitch up for effectively a training IFR arrival you should book a slot,
3. This concept of filing a FP for an IFR flight outside class A in the UK is nuts - it simply will not smooth your passage through class D and as bookworm says the chances are no one will take any notice of the FP other than your destination (and that includes class D); sorry but I think you are simply wasting your time but file as you will,
4. Yes, correct a FP is required TO or FROM the UK.
See above and no. You will not get any more preference because you have filed than if you had not. For example take a flight Goucester, Brize, Shoreham. The service Gloucester can provide is a basic service and thats the most you will get. Brize can and will give you a traffic service as soon as you ask and will give you an IFR class D transit. They may or may not hand you over to Farnborough but it will make no different whether you have filed or not. You are more likely to get a handover if you indicate you are IMC IFR and ask if they can arrange a handover to Farnborough please. In these conditions when most people are on the ground and Farnborough not too busy they will organise the handover. Finally you could ask Farnborough to arrange a handover to Shoreham - but why? There is nothing to handover as all Shoreham can offer is a basic service. Even in the procedure at Shoreham the procedure is entirely outside CAS.
.. but sorry all what info? Lets say you wish to transit Solent West to East on track Shoreham, somewhere East of Bournemouth (outside CAS) you will tell them you are G-XXXX, FL75 requesting IFR transit direct Shoreham - that is your FP and if you had filed, the length of the call would be no different, in fact it could end up being exactly the same call. With any luck the controller will give you a squawk, QNH and clearance direct on track Shoreham. He might ask you to route via SAM, give you a change of level or ask if you can accept vectors but short of refusing your transit thats about it.
Frankly, although some ask, these guys are really not interested in your life history, they dont want to know where you have come from, and they dont want to know where you are going, they really dont want to know whether you are 1, 2 or 3 pax and whether you are expecting SAM at 15, 25 or 35 past! All they want to know is how you wish to transit THEIR class D - its not London info.
I hasten to add that I am only delaing with flights outside class A - as I said earlier it all changes if you want to go airways and of course you can enjoy the luxury of all the handovers etc and clearly must file but dont forget that en route Shoreham you will more than likely get sent literally round the houses whatever you file and might find they get shot of you (so far as class A is concerned) at the earliest opportunity.
2. As far as I am aware Shoreham will always give you an approach service if you arrive IMC within published hours and conditions are "prorperly" IMC - but if you pitch up for effectively a training IFR arrival you should book a slot,
3. This concept of filing a FP for an IFR flight outside class A in the UK is nuts - it simply will not smooth your passage through class D and as bookworm says the chances are no one will take any notice of the FP other than your destination (and that includes class D); sorry but I think you are simply wasting your time but file as you will,
4. Yes, correct a FP is required TO or FROM the UK.
Problem with that is that I've had to freecall every en route frequency, increasing workload except where the guys on the ground have provided a handover out of courtesy. Would it be sensible to file a flight plan with all the en route ATS units even when staying outside class A?
The last thing a busy controller wants to sequence at the last minute is you while you are submitting all of the info on a FPL over the radio.
Frankly, although some ask, these guys are really not interested in your life history, they dont want to know where you have come from, and they dont want to know where you are going, they really dont want to know whether you are 1, 2 or 3 pax and whether you are expecting SAM at 15, 25 or 35 past! All they want to know is how you wish to transit THEIR class D - its not London info.
I hasten to add that I am only delaing with flights outside class A - as I said earlier it all changes if you want to go airways and of course you can enjoy the luxury of all the handovers etc and clearly must file but dont forget that en route Shoreham you will more than likely get sent literally round the houses whatever you file and might find they get shot of you (so far as class A is concerned) at the earliest opportunity.
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 10th Jun 2010 at 21:28.
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When a flight plan is filed on AFPEX, and the ACK message received, it has a reference number on it. Does anyone know if this number would ever be of any use to a controller struggling to locate the flight plan you have filed and had acknowledged.
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Well I have been working a freq (which one escapes me - too many) and heard someone pass a flightplan over the radio. It took quite sometime and several transmissions, blocking the freq. The controller has to record all of the flight's details from endurance, equipment etc... He was not best pleased.
The flightplan should be sent to all addresses along the route, which you can add to, making sure all reqd LARS get a copy. Once you have sent a facility your fpl, a strip should be produced saying that you are IFR and become active once your fpl is active after your departure airfield has called to confirm your movement. If this is not possible, your first contact with the LARS will activate your fpl. I have used VFR fpl's to fly to Ireland and had to pass details and I am sure it is the same for non-airways fpl's, but it shouldn't if the correct addresses are included. The reason for the fpl is to keep controlers in the loop to your location and intentions, especially in bad wx or water crossings. But I am talking a 4hr flight in a SEP. I want all the bells and braces if the doink quits. When I am operating commercailly, it is always IFR and full radar / proc services all the way.
I agree, there is no perfect world and other traffic may be ahead in the queue, but the system is there to be used. If it doesn't work for you, ring up FAB or the local LARS and pay them a visit to clarify. Get PRO-ACTIVE and find an answer, not just saying it is a waste of time.
If you get a direct routing from Solent without a fpl you did pretty well. Normally they don't want to know GA as it is too busy there. It is bad enough taking an airliner in there.....
I think it depends on where you are as to the service you will receive.
The flightplan should be sent to all addresses along the route, which you can add to, making sure all reqd LARS get a copy. Once you have sent a facility your fpl, a strip should be produced saying that you are IFR and become active once your fpl is active after your departure airfield has called to confirm your movement. If this is not possible, your first contact with the LARS will activate your fpl. I have used VFR fpl's to fly to Ireland and had to pass details and I am sure it is the same for non-airways fpl's, but it shouldn't if the correct addresses are included. The reason for the fpl is to keep controlers in the loop to your location and intentions, especially in bad wx or water crossings. But I am talking a 4hr flight in a SEP. I want all the bells and braces if the doink quits. When I am operating commercailly, it is always IFR and full radar / proc services all the way.
I agree, there is no perfect world and other traffic may be ahead in the queue, but the system is there to be used. If it doesn't work for you, ring up FAB or the local LARS and pay them a visit to clarify. Get PRO-ACTIVE and find an answer, not just saying it is a waste of time.
If you get a direct routing from Solent without a fpl you did pretty well. Normally they don't want to know GA as it is too busy there. It is bad enough taking an airliner in there.....
I think it depends on where you are as to the service you will receive.